TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

unfortunately the 2nd gear cog on the 2004 - 2008 RX-8 6-spd transmission, which is integrally cast and machined on the countershaft assembly, is as fragile as porous glass if pushed hard, initially it will begin to break off teeth until there's finally a big enough gap that allows the momentum to spin all the rest of the teeth off the countershaft

I've blown out four of them behind NA 6 port engines and the countershaft alone is a $400+ part even at racer discount pricing, it always takes out the mating main shaft 2nd gear with it plus there's the potential for other damage and bearing replacement from all the metal teeth chunks etc. going through the rest of the box


note that the brown color of the parts shown in the pictures of the following link from my very first blow up were a result of the cheap digital camera light setting, the actual parts are all bright silver/metallic:


https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...34&postcount=1



.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I will reiterate - mechanical empathy.

Remember - I've seen you drive. You are EXCEEDINGLY hard on the tranny. Almost inconceivably so.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Yeah, I push it harder than most, but then I didn't blow up differentials too like Judge Ito

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, I don't know what Ito was doing.

You don't wait for your tranny to do anything it was designed to do before you demand the next gear. You drive it like it has gear dogs.
At San Diego, I was flinching when you made your runs. Made my skin crawl.

ChrisRX8PR

iTrader: (1)

uhh...the 414 dyno has been posted on this thread and on our website for about a year now...I am not "claiming" 414 now...I am claiming over 500whp now....read before you assume stuff

I am using 275-35-19 Toyo T1R's which is higher than the 275-30-19 I was using in the video and with the approx extra 100whp it has now(up from 414) it breaks loose more than it did in the video even with the better tire with larger diameter.

Don't get me wrong, with the new tires the car goes, it doesn't just sit there...its just that with 500whp 1st 2nd and 3rd from a roll(no clutch involved) it has the power to break tires loose...hence why cars with 600 engine hp and such come with 11-13" wide wheels with at least 295-305 wide rubber. Its lots of fun if you ask me.

A new dyno sheet will come soon...

Chris

p.s.mm is right when he says "mechanical empathy"...I kinda "baby" my tranny....its alot harder to break a tranny from a roll than from shifting or clutching. I always let the synchros do their job in between gears and let the clutch out as I get back on the throttle although I do it very quickly...no need to power shift with this much power, it will just cause the car to go sideways and you will waste more time...at least on street tires.

blackenedwings

I definitely think a lot of it comes down to how the car is driven, and listening to what it is telling you. The RX-8 transmission isn't the strongest thing in the world, but you can drive it without grenading it even with a lot more power than stock. I hardly ever launch off the line at full boost and tend to progressively accelerate into boost from each gear. I don't baby the car, but I also don't slam power at it abruptly at every light. I don't have a ton of miles in the car turbocharged yet, but I'm hoping for a good number of miles on the transmission before a replacement is called for.

bse50

I agree with you, Jeff and Chris but our transmission has got its limitations.
There are tracks where you have to be fast shifting between two turns of very different radius and you're usually braking or putting some other stress to the drivetrain\ppf. This doesn't help with our transmission's life.
I broke my transmission because my clutch pedal was flexing and the clutch not properly engaging (slipping) while fast-shifting. This put some extra stress to the synchros and then the damage was done.
Bent shift forks are another story though, being gentle surely helps in that case.

stinksause

iTrader: (5)

So pretty much the choices are:
a) Be gentle with you shifts
or
b) go through the pain in the butt of getting an rx7 tranny

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

nice summation

chickenwafer

iTrader: (9)

While I don't shift my transmission like it has a dog box with straight cut gears I will admit I'm not the best on the transmission I'm a big guy so sometimes I muscle/force things when I don't have to haha.

I still think the RX-7 transmission swap is worth for it peace of mind and so you can negotiate properly quick shifts. It's amazing how much a slow granny shift can slow you down, too.

BDC

You guys tried the Turbo II stuff yet?

B

Talic

I agree, something has to give. always something has to give. my fav is in this order.
1. tires 2. half shafts 3. main driveshaft/ujoints 4. clutch/flywheel 5. diff 6. trans and hopefully for the last and hopefully not all 7 at once the engine. when I track or 1/4 my current build car for the first couple runs will be on my dayly driver tires just for that reason.
I can manage wheelspin very easy without loss of power, just some ET or smoke in turns. keeping in mind Ive noticed that the axial flow shifter actually feels like it helps the transmission\driver shift smoother without gear mashing or half shifts.
This car has 73,000km on it from a previous owner and the trans fells like its actually is better kept then my previous 11,000km car from japan. so Id say tranny failure is completely driver error. After putting the shifter in the 73,000km car it felt I did a trans swap to something completely bullet proof.
My 11,000km car had so much play in the gears the car would rock like crazy in very low rpm in 2nd and always missed hard 1-2 and 5-6 shifts. 5th was so hard to get in on high rpms that after it went in Id usually fist slam the a/c temp guage 6th would grind every time. this is the way I got it from japan, and it worsen after the procharger setup... keep in mind it was killed by another driver at 82,000km (over 70,000 @300rwhp with 9k shifts everytime with over 240km/h runs for over 3 hours sustained for an hour each time (ran out of fuel)) my 2 cents...
P.s if you use the sld auto in the manual it will stop adding k/ms after 180/h and after 240 the speedo will read 0 this on the japan ecu which was goved at 180

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

You will probably want to move #3 to below the tranny (and possibly the engine as well) considering the pricetag for that part on this car.
Actually, same with #5.

elysium19

iTrader: (1)

Really? If properly tuned, prepped, lubricated, and generally cared for.....

outinnowhere3193

iTrader: (2)

Now like he said with first and second they have the power..and if you shift hard you go sideways... as far as my transmission I use to speed shift my tranny very hard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk8EBGo_bUA This is when my car was stock...about 8000 miles ago...The second gear was already getting bad as far as the sync's so hard shifting in high rpm's was like impossible. I mean I've done my share of hard hitting but the the turbo at 14psi I never did any hard shifts from first to second and I snapped teeth.


And chris yes I know you have posted a dyno sheet anyone can post a dyno sheet...hell I could make one up right now that's not even real. Not saying yours isn't real....just saying you have claimed this power for a long while now and there isn't any hard actual evidence here that proves it. Like someone said before do a dyno with a video showing your car on the dyno and then showing the numbers on the computer while the car is on the dyno. I know you don't throw money away everyday at a dyno.. I don't either but if your claiming this power then you must know of this power..which means you must of been on a dyno. That's all I'm saying I'm not saying it is or isn't possible... I'm just saying I'm boosting 14 and have boosted 16 on factory apex seals 93 octane fuel and my car is quick...but I don't think i'm putting down no where near 500whp. My gearing is higher then yours by far. So in second at 6k when I hit my power band my rpm's jump to 7k but that's it.. I only get a hair of a slip in traction...but never the less I'm doing like 55-60 at that point. I top out at about 85 in second now.

I guess what I'm saying is.... your 3rd gear tops out at like 90 which isn't far from my second gear.. Your second is like my first lol

My first is 50 your's is like 40 and your second is like 60
My second is 85 your third is like 90.

So if I spin a little in second and you say you spin sometimes in third that means we have pretty much the same power!!!!

I just don't think I'm that high in power I might be wrong I did hit 305 at 8psi when I first had my motor built. But then again maybe you are putting that much power down and I just didn't realize I was too.

ChrisRX8PR

iTrader: (1)

I only have one thing to say....you want to take a road trip? Lets do this, you come over and I will pay for the dyno right in front of you and run the car. I ran 414whp at 16psi on 93 octane on the stock engine on the stuff I sell in my kit, the turbo is similarly sized to a GT3574....now if you want an idea of what this turbo does at 16psi on a rotary with stock ports go on rx7club.com and read some threads...I am actually below where I could be and the reason is that the boost controller wasn't set up properly so it was falling on the top end...if you need a class on why your 16psi is not equal to mine then go read some threads on how turbo's work....now I have a big frame precision turbo billet compressor PT71GTQ with a .96 rear housing on a Q trim based wheel....and now I am at 19-20psi and with a custom intake manifold that actually lets the car breathe up top and with a half-bridge ported engine...is it really that hard to believe that I jumped 80+whp with those mods....wow...

I don't have a reason to post an invented dyno sheet, that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. I would've posted a huge dyno sheet a long time ago to drive sales and it hasn't happened, everyone here knows that I always take forever to go to the dyno and they complain about me not doing it soon enough, that would not be a problem with faked dyno sheets. I think you should really consider the fact that maybe I know what I am doing and I have actually gotten the numbers I posted. I don't have just one sheet, there were 3-4 passes that night leading up to the 414...I just don't feel the need to keep everyone on the forum informed of every step I take in my personal life so I posted the highest run...which, with all due respect, is my personal decision.

By the way, I do have a video of the 414 run so once more, ask before you assume and you shall receive. I will attempt to edit and get that video onto electronic format sometime next week and post it for your viewing pleasure...then you can say that there was another dyno behind the wall next to mine and a different car did the pass and I just showed you the screen so you would think it was my run but it was all faked...LOL...anyone can fake that too...I can have my car make a run and then have the dyno guy pull some other dyno data on the computer screen just to show everyone....it sounds ridiculous...

Either way, like I said before....a dyno is due soon...then you can say how it was all staged in Paint also.

Unbelievable!


Chris

By the way...my 3rd, stock, gets to about 96-97mph...I have about 3/4-1.0" more diameter on my rear tires so its ok to think I am getting to 100mph in 3rd....and I don't spin a little in second...it cleans out...I just control it...and in third if I wanted to I could spin clear to redline...yes 100mph...my 2nd stock gets to 69-70mph...with the larger tire it gets to about 72...regardless this is pretty pointless...we have completely different setups...

JinDesu

iTrader: (2)

Awesome reply Chris, I am subscriiibbbedddd

bse50

i want to see the dyno because i'm curious about the powerband

stinksause

iTrader: (5)

I believe its on his website, but if I remember correctly, he said he was running rich and/or his boost controller was not working properly above 7k .... so it will give you an idea ... but keep that in mind when you look at it

bse50

i was referring to the 500whp one.
The 400 or so dyno shows good top end power but overall is not as good as other turbo kits are from a track racing point of view. Overall powerband always wins over top end
I want to see how things changed with the new turbocharger and substantial mods he did (bridge porting, new manifold etc).

Dethwalkin

Wow, all this time and it's still the same old story.....Chris where's the dyno sheet, Chris where's the proof? Can't you people understand? Chris and esmeril racing want you all to just take their word for it and send them money for their products.

Wow, Chris/esmeril why dont you guys get it? When almost the entire forum has been asking you for the same thing for over a year? Solid proof. But I see it now. You will only show one person at a time and only if they drive down to see you. At the drop of a hat you'll go over to the dyno and run the car. Why don't you save everybody the time and just go over today, take your camera. Shut all of us non-belivers up once and for all.

Dude, why dont you make a good Business decision and post a dyno run.

dillsrotary

Proof of what? The thread has a dyno on the first page for his product. Now for his personal car he has been stating that he has hit quite a high whp mark and will be dynoing shortly. How does that have anything to do with a business when it was simply a personal goal to begin with? You cannot confuse vendor products with their personal goals, he obviously is not selling a 500whp kit because he put quite alot of extra money and investment into his current set up. Sounds like you are just having a bad day and looking for a punching bag.

ChrisRX8PR

iTrader: (1)

ER is a part of Esmeril Industries LLC a company that has lots of other stuff to do besides going to the dyno just to please a few whiners in a forum...we don't live on a dyno...

This actually makes it better...because then you get to hear everyone's comments(that were bashing for no reason) when you post the dyno and its funny. I am not selling my current setup therefore the dyno is for entertainment purposes. We are still selling kits/ignitions/apex seals etc strongly and the customer's are not complaining...the people that are serious about purchasing from us get all the info they want to a point and they are not complaining either... but thanks for the great business input!

Its simple: As of this moment, You want apex seals that will take what you can throw at them? call us...you want the kit that has put the highest documented(with a dyno) whp down, period? call us...an ignition that wont poop out on you in the middle of a dyno run or mess with your timing and cause engine failure? call us... You want to hate? don't even try, we will not waste our valuable time with you.

When you own your own business you realize that there are two types of time/effort/resources etc...Value added...and non-Value added...posting a dyno of what you sell at two different levels of boost (13 and 16psi) is value added....replying to your customers questions on fitment and recommendations is value added...doing the right research so stuff works is value added..replacing components that didn't fulfill their expected service life to keep customers happy is value added....wasting time performing random tests every time someone whines that they don't believe our data when they are not even going to make a purchase is completely and utterly non-value added...so please refrain from providing business advice.

To all....I apologize...this is as far as I will get on this subject because it is a waste of my time. When I have a dyno I will post it...when I edit the video I will post it, if you are not going to buy from us until I post those things that is completely understandable, sit, wait and then buy when we post the data you are expecting if you haven't bought anything else at that time.

Best regards,

Chris

shazy

Wat a fail for some of you. If you can ****** spin at 100mph then you know you are much higher than 400whp.

EDIT: Chris, Nicely worded
Anyway, how about them Transmissions?

ssspeedfreak

iTrader: (1)

Chris I'm happy to see someone trying to push the car to the limits! Not I nor anyone I know have the resources to do this and I am glad you show our car love by trying. Are most of us looking for a 500whp car? Probably not, but we can learn some great things here.
Great car tec. comes straight from racing. Racing is pushing the cars to there limits and finding what breaks, fixing it and starting all over again. What Chris learns in his "race" car can help him to make improvments on the products he sells. Thats good buisness sense. The fact that he chooses to share "some" of that with us is appreciated (at least by me). He does his R&D work and we benifit. He never sounds like he's all about sales neither are the BHR guys, thats why I choose to do buisness with either one of them. I wounder if everyone asked greddy for some much before they bought their kit?