9krpmrx8's Boost Build Thread
06-20-2011, 04:19 PM
#376
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Different opinions ... neah.. not really. Different train of thought.. yes. The idea was to coat it to keep excess heat out of the engine bay as this was a problem with someone else in the past. I can see your point of view as well I just dont know if the pipe can shed enough heat to make an appreciable difference to the charge temp no matter the coating. You made me look at things from a different point of view and I thank you for that. I will think about this issue some more.
You just getting your intercooler done for now Scott?
You just getting your intercooler done for now Scott?
I will have a discussion with Craig (coating/thermal engineer dude), bring up all the suggestions, and let him be my guide. Obviously he may be a bit biased but if Corky Bell uses him for all of his Turbo stuff that's good enough for me.Check out my build thread for installed pics from a bunch of angles...
Great guide Brett....
9K don't take this the wrong way but I feel like for the number you are looking for you are going a bit excessive. The nice thing about this ***** out attitude though is that your are going to have a ton of room to go bigger.... and believe me you are going to eventually want to do that... its an addiction!!
Great guide Brett....
9K don't take this the wrong way but I feel like for the number you are looking for you are going a bit excessive. The nice thing about this ***** out attitude though is that your are going to have a ton of room to go bigger.... and believe me you are going to eventually want to do that... its an addiction!!
06-20-2011, 05:16 PM
#380
Will do, thanks. And I am going a bit excessive, it's a problem I have. It's actually pretty interesting because three of us Texas boys (Shady is officially a Texan now) are all going FI at the same time each of us is doing things pretty different. We will see how things pan out for each of us but at the same time we all have each other to help each other when we need it.
That is the way I look at things pretty often when it comes to the car. I admit it. lol
Also over-thinking things is not bad, but in the end, like RotaryMachineRX mentioned, you are going all out on the supporting mods, so maybe you should aim higher. 100% you are going to want to eventually. This thread is already longer than most build threads, so you may as well take your time.
06-20-2011, 05:19 PM
#381
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In reality, when one of you does something, the other two think, 'oh snaps, why didn't I think of that. I better do it too.' and then a little of 'I gotta do this, because no one else will. It will give me an edge.'
That is the way I look at things pretty often when it comes to the car. I admit it. lol
Also over-thinking things is not bad, but in the end, like RotaryMachineRX mentioned, you are going all out on the supporting mods, so maybe you should aim higher. 100% you are going to want to eventually. This thread is already longer than most build threads, so you may as well take your time.
That is the way I look at things pretty often when it comes to the car. I admit it. lol
Also over-thinking things is not bad, but in the end, like RotaryMachineRX mentioned, you are going all out on the supporting mods, so maybe you should aim higher. 100% you are going to want to eventually. This thread is already longer than most build threads, so you may as well take your time.
Yeah I should probably have waited to start this thread until at least the turbo was rebuilt and the coating was done
06-20-2011, 08:42 PM
#384
a build thread starts at the beginning of the build. some start a build thread after the build and its more like a show thread thus its short and sweet.
But then again, I started my thread around the same time and its half as long
This should be the Build Lounge
But then again, I started my thread around the same time and its half as long
This should be the Build Lounge
06-20-2011, 08:57 PM
#385
9k. Get this **** done. I'm sick of waiting.
Although it's branched out into a complete FI discussion, there's a lot to be learned for the casual reader, budding researcher, or other people doing the same thing. Seems like a good thread to me.
I really have nothing else to contribute. I'm useless.
06-20-2011, 11:01 PM
#387
When they get flow tested the bench flow numbers are higher then the actual numbers in the car. It has to do with pulse widths and fuel pressure (I think). However they do give you the pre and post numbers and because they are tested the same way, you can get a % increase off that, do the math and be pretty close the the actual in vehicle numbers. Keeping in mind that under full load the fuel pump (especialy stock) might not be able to maintain proper fuel pressure which results in less fuel flow. Attached is the numbers from the set of injectors I was running. Showed a 100% flow increase 420 to 840. The 420 is 10% high, so subtract 10% from 840 and you have 755 injectors. I think the issue might be that the fuel pressure drops under WOT around 6-8K RPM.
I dynoed 300 RWHP but then I upgraded my intake (cooler air and bigger filter) and my pulleys so it wouldnt slip and the boost increased. I was maxing out my maf from 8200 RPM all the way to redline. Maf scalled by MM. I never got close to maxing it when I made 300 RWHP. So 325 RWHP is a fair number. 17-20% drivetrain loss and add another 25-40 HP for the procharger. Puts me well over 400 BHP. Flywheel sees less, but the motor is making the power.
I dynoed 300 RWHP but then I upgraded my intake (cooler air and bigger filter) and my pulleys so it wouldnt slip and the boost increased. I was maxing out my maf from 8200 RPM all the way to redline. Maf scalled by MM. I never got close to maxing it when I made 300 RWHP. So 325 RWHP is a fair number. 17-20% drivetrain loss and add another 25-40 HP for the procharger. Puts me well over 400 BHP. Flywheel sees less, but the motor is making the power.
uh, no
if you are using a quality injector testing company you will get flow readings at several different pulse widths as well as at 100% (the rating) and they will also use a fluid that closely replicates the fuel you intend to use plus the fluid pressure that they were tested at. There is likely some other issue that you haven't determined yet.
A SC motor is not making the actual power as much as it and the support systems are experiencing the stress loads of of a higher output engine with an actual lower power output, which in the case of a Renesis is far from ideal .... I'm betting that your Procharger power loss is much higher than you listed.
06-21-2011, 08:13 AM
#389
Hey Scott (and anyone else with a turbo or looking to go turbo). I found something pretty cool while skimming through the vibrant website last night. They have a pretty cool universal oil return line.
http://vibrantperformance.com/catalo...oducts_id=1589
http://vibrantperformance.com/catalo...oducts_id=1589
06-21-2011, 08:57 AM
#390
uh, no
if you are using a quality injector testing company you will get flow readings at several different pulse widths as well as at 100% (the rating) and they will also use a fluid that closely replicates the fuel you intend to use plus the fluid pressure that they were tested at. There is likely some other issue that you haven't determined yet.
A SC motor is not making the actual power as much as it and the support systems are experiencing the stress loads of of a higher output engine with an actual lower power output, which in the case of a Renesis is far from ideal .... I'm betting that your Procharger power loss is much higher than you listed.
if you are using a quality injector testing company you will get flow readings at several different pulse widths as well as at 100% (the rating) and they will also use a fluid that closely replicates the fuel you intend to use plus the fluid pressure that they were tested at. There is likely some other issue that you haven't determined yet.
A SC motor is not making the actual power as much as it and the support systems are experiencing the stress loads of of a higher output engine with an actual lower power output, which in the case of a Renesis is far from ideal .... I'm betting that your Procharger power loss is much higher than you listed.
Resistane ohms: 14.6
Leak test before and after: Passed both
Spray pattern before and after: Good for both
Static flow before at 2.25 BAR: 408CC
Static Flow After at 2.25 BAR: 780
They include some charts too, but thats basicly it.
2.25 bar equals 32.5 PSI Fuel pressure.
Whats interesting is that the last set I had done went 420 to 840. Both sets were from 07 6 port motors and both tested the same way.
Procharger Power consumoption: Honestly I dont know what the power consumption is. I have tried to find data on it, but I cant. I do know that a 5 rip V-Belt wrapped 80% around a 2 inch diameter pulley will slip. I am also told that centrifical superchargers and specificaly prochargers are some of the most effecent superchargers. I am sure jeff would have a pretty good estimate based on my maf readings and RWHP when compared to a blow through turbo application.
For what its worth, if I had to do it all over again, I would not have gone the procharger route. I would have waited 1-2 years and I could have bought someone elses upgraded greddy kit, upgraded it further and still spent half the money as I have on this thing and made more power. With the money saved I might have gone with a S2 transmission and a street port motor. Oh well, its only HP and money and they dont mean everything.
06-21-2011, 09:17 AM
#391
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Thread Starter
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Hey Scott (and anyone else with a turbo or looking to go turbo). I found something pretty cool while skimming through the vibrant website last night. They have a pretty cool universal oil return line.
http://vibrantperformance.com/catalo...oducts_id=1589
http://vibrantperformance.com/catalo...oducts_id=1589
Good find bro!
Also, great discussion guys.
06-21-2011, 09:35 AM
#392
In regards to some of my comments yesterday about heat barrier coatings, I thought about it some more and will like to revise my stance.
Depending on the temperature and location of the turbo to intercooler piping, a ceramic heat barrier coatings may be benefical. The high heat of the pipes will radiate heat. If that heat is transfered to the underhood air, this will increase heat soak to many engine parts. With a fresh air intake, the underhood temperature may bot effect IAT, the heat soak shoudl still be reduced as much as possible.
However, if the pipes are exposed to fresh air and the air is directed out of the engine bay, I suggest the heat dissipation coating.
No matter which of the above scenarios your vehicle falls into, and option you choose, I still believe a heat dissipation coating for the intercooler is a good idea and the intercooler to engine pipes should be coated with a heat barrier coating to shield them from the underhood temps.
I agree with the statements that the air is moving so fast through the piping that there will be very little if any effect on IAT during extended WOT runs. However for street driving it will help and on a tight track were there is a lot of slower turns and throttle modulation.
Depending on the temperature and location of the turbo to intercooler piping, a ceramic heat barrier coatings may be benefical. The high heat of the pipes will radiate heat. If that heat is transfered to the underhood air, this will increase heat soak to many engine parts. With a fresh air intake, the underhood temperature may bot effect IAT, the heat soak shoudl still be reduced as much as possible.
However, if the pipes are exposed to fresh air and the air is directed out of the engine bay, I suggest the heat dissipation coating.
No matter which of the above scenarios your vehicle falls into, and option you choose, I still believe a heat dissipation coating for the intercooler is a good idea and the intercooler to engine pipes should be coated with a heat barrier coating to shield them from the underhood temps.
I agree with the statements that the air is moving so fast through the piping that there will be very little if any effect on IAT during extended WOT runs. However for street driving it will help and on a tight track were there is a lot of slower turns and throttle modulation.
06-21-2011, 10:14 AM
#393
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Yeah I will also be using a air/water inter-cooler instead of the Greddy inter-cooler so I am going to talk to him about getting that coated as well. I also need to work on duct work for the front as well but my sheet metal skills suck so it is a slow learning process.
06-21-2011, 10:23 AM
#394
It's actually pretty interesting because three of us Texas boys (Shady is officially a Texan now) are all going FI at the same time each of us is doing things pretty different. We will see how things pan out for each of us but at the same time we all have each other to help each other when we need it.
Also if anyone is going excessive and taking forever its me due to my goal of 380 whp. Also needing to be fully built by sevenstock is making things more difficult on my wallet.
As far as engine bay heat goes I think the best solution is to route fresh air ducts in there you will need to make some cuts into the wheel well but I think it could be done.
06-21-2011, 10:28 AM
#395
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Yeah due to my single cooler I have two factory oil cooler locations available so I am trying to figure out how to route that flow thru the radiator. I would also like to install flap that open on the fan shroud at speed but there is not a lot of surface area so when I looked at doing this I really couldn't figure out a great solution.
06-21-2011, 11:00 AM
#396
Attach 2 3 inch hoses. Run one to your brake rotors and run the other through the plastic and point it at the radiator.
You could also get more flow to your radiator by modifying or building a custom front crash bar to allow the oil cooler to mount higher. Then cut out the plastic grill to get air flow to the oil cooler.
I am having a a custom crash bar built right now that will increase the flow of air to my intercooler which was partialy mounted behind the crash bar. This is how I could justify cutting the bottom off my intercooler and replacing it with an oil cooler. Well that and my 260 degree oil temps. LOL
06-21-2011, 11:22 AM
#397
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That should be easy. Seal off the vents in the wheel well and open up the plastic that seperates the radiator duct from the oil cooler duts. Or you could use something like this. http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?tp...action=product
Attach 2 3 inch hoses. Run one to your brake rotors and run the other through the plastic and point it at the radiator.
You could also get more flow to your radiator by modifying or building a custom front crash bar to allow the oil cooler to mount higher. Then cut out the plastic grill to get air flow to the oil cooler.
I am having a a custom crash bar built right now that will increase the flow of air to my intercooler which was partialy mounted behind the crash bar. This is how I could justify cutting the bottom off my intercooler and replacing it with an oil cooler. Well that and my 260 degree oil temps. LOL
Attach 2 3 inch hoses. Run one to your brake rotors and run the other through the plastic and point it at the radiator.
You could also get more flow to your radiator by modifying or building a custom front crash bar to allow the oil cooler to mount higher. Then cut out the plastic grill to get air flow to the oil cooler.
I am having a a custom crash bar built right now that will increase the flow of air to my intercooler which was partialy mounted behind the crash bar. This is how I could justify cutting the bottom off my intercooler and replacing it with an oil cooler. Well that and my 260 degree oil temps. LOL
I will have to try and sneak away.
06-21-2011, 12:21 PM
#400
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Everything is bigger in TEXAS... Including the first ever Rx8 Turbo Pre-Build thread?
Agreed.... it is quite an informative thread and could go so much further but in order for a sticky there would have to me a little more organization to the posts I would think....
Hey Scott (and anyone else with a turbo or looking to go turbo). I found something pretty cool while skimming through the vibrant website last night. They have a pretty cool universal oil return line.
http://vibrantperformance.com/catalo...oducts_id=1589
http://vibrantperformance.com/catalo...oducts_id=1589