Setup: Greddy Turbo at 5.5psi, stock injectors, P2 not severed, Emanage Blue, Profec E-01 and Greddy support tool. XD-1 and LC-1 for WBO2 also tapped to E-01 for datalog. Currently running "Tims380SeveredInjectorMap13" from "Definitive Fixes" thread.

Issue#1: At cruise (low boost <0 psi), with reset KAM and NVRAM, car runs at 14.5 to 15.1 AFR. No apparent knock, but I have the feeling that I should REALLY drop that to at least 12. Should I do this via the "additional injector map" or the "sub injector map?" I would assume the "sub" but I am not sure since map #13 uses both. Also, would this be fixed by cutting the injector wires? Honestly, I would like to make sure that I am running well before making the cut.

Issue#2: While I am running AFRs in the 10 range in boost, transision into boost (right around 2-3 psi) results in a pretty reproducable AFR spike. I thought map 13 would eliminate this (as elimination of this spike is map #13's raison d'être.) Any ideas? This also may be fixed by jumping in with both feet and making the cut. Advice appretiated.

 

I should note that fix #3 does not CAUSE the issue, just that I have done fix #3 and I now see that I have this particular issue. Fix #3 is da' bomb. (am I still allowed to say that? da' bomb? I am a little behind the times.)

 

An afr around 14.4 at cruise (vacuum ~15"HG) should be fine as you are not under any load. I leaned my cruise AFR out to around there to save gas.

 

Well, for starters, "Tims380SeveredInjectorMap13" is for just that - severed injectors!!

You'll also notice that the additional injection map is all zeros. Tune using only the sub injector map. You can use the additional injection on the S and P1's if you start to get in the 90% cuty cycle range of the P2's.

The spike that map 13 attemps to eliminate is not as you enter boost. Its the spike that occurs as the tertiary intake runners open. The have no injectors in them and, as a result, give a shot of unfueled air that gives a big lean spike when they open in the 4500 RPM range.

 

Anytime your engine is running without boost and low rpm you are running on the factory ecu and so the AFR you quote for cruise/low load is normal and adequate.
If you look at the sub injector map that is where almost all the fuel is being added.(just a little on the additional injector map at high boost/high rpm).

 

The air/fuel at cruise can be that lean without any issues, that actually is a good air/fuel to shoot for under cruise.

If you are seeing a lean spike in the 2-3 lb area then you need to richen the mixture up there, but leave the cruise a/f alone.

Jon

 

Thanks!!! Great info

I will sever tonight.

 

Also bear in mind that the factory specifications for the injectors allow for a 12% variaion in the flow rates of the injctors. That's why individual tuning is so important. The basic point of severing the injectors is to take control away from the PCM so you are in control of the tune.

 

I too am wanting to do the 3rd fix that MadDog had discovered. I want to wait for my new spark plugs, should be a day or so. Under boost I am always between 10-11, and 14-16 off boost but, my gas mileage still blows, part of driving the 8 I guess . Anyway, Lemme know how ur fix goes Carbon, b/c I would like to do it just to mainly eliminate the constant onslaught of backfires when I lift. I have developed a driving method to reduce them, but I should be in control of the car, not the other way around! I also plan to recirc the BOV sicne I have bought the outlett adapter, and I feel that could help w/ the backfires sumwhat. Maddog, I believe I pmed u yesterday. Gimme a shout if u got it, thanks.

 

he never heard of closed loop? i'd lean it out to the mid-high 15's under vacuum.

 

So I am severed. I will post pics later here and maybe in the other thread since I havent seen any pics.

I will say that I had to adjust the map (#13) to richen up the map right on the boarder between boost and no boost at mid-rpms, as I was getting this odd finger-nail-on-a-file sound that I interpreted as light knock. Sound went away with more fuel.

Every thing seemed grand, until i pushed it a little on a test run onto a highway. I was getting these odd bogs and running "stall" rich (AFR<9.8) Good thing I was data logging and I noticed that the log has spikes in my rpm trace, this of cource was interpreted by the emanage as time to dump fuel, and I bogged. Why is this doing this? Unfortunately, I dont know where my RPM pick up is even to check for good contact. The bogs were intermittant and I did get some good launches. This car hauls ***. Way too fast to play will on ANY public road. I am tempted to buy a gtech (the data logging one) just to see what this car does. I would not be surprised with a 4.9 0-60 (at 7.5 psi, which I had the cohones to try.)

EDIT: Oh, and how do you input AFR into the emanage and then into the Greddy support tool.? All this data that the support tool supplies seems nearly useless without AFR.

EDIT: Pics are showing the severed injection wires as prescribed (shown) and with the injection wires shrink wrapped for safety.

 

I dont think this fix will fix the backfires. The only way to eliminate backfires on my car on throttle tip-out is to completely lift the throttle. Even <10% throttle will give very rapid backfires. I am not completely sure that this is a recirc-solveable problem. I think it is a timing issue. I think the timeing is retarded to the point that it doesnt ignite the fuel. Hence it ignites on my cat, I think.

 

Yea, thats what I was afraid of. I lift slightly and "pop!" I give like u said, slight throttle, and it's one after the other. However, if I engage the clutch while lifting off, I've noticed a significant decrease, but they are still present. Since, timing is yet another complicated step, I'm curous to see waht a race pipe would do for the backfires. And, as far as the 0-60 run, I had the cohones to try that as well a couple of days ago. I shifted b4 8k though so it wouldn't drop as much psi. I agree, w/ u though, it moves! I was running 8psi, and I spun through first w/ about a 4k launch, and hugged 2nd gear w/ sum moderate wheel spin through sum of it as well. I started breaking when I was at 65mph, so 60 had to have come significantly quicker, and I'll say I reached 65 quickly too. Afterwards, I was seriously considering buying a gtech just to get an accurate times also. Lemme know how ur running if u get one.

 

Well, I taped my rpm dongle down (I found the rpm wire) so that it doesnt dance around and bang into anything. I ran the car this morning (without the computer attached, just the E-01) and everything was fine. No rich bogs. maybe with the emanage hanging out of my glovebox, there was a loose connection?

Car feels AWESOME!!!!! With the severed injectors, partial throttle feels GREAT. Smooth transitions. Feels like I got my car back from the shop or something. Ever since the turbo went on, I was avoiding riding just at the transition to boost 'cause it would studder and shake. Now every thing is smooth as butta. (well maybe smooth as sour cream, while it used to be heavy curd cottage cheese! I still have to lean out parts of the map a bit, for example, at WOT I run an AFR of around 10.5 to 10.8 and the car feels a little hesitant.)

BTW I bumped the boost to 7.5 PSI on stock injectors and I dont seem to be getting any leaner. I am not going any higher until I get a set of injectors. Just FYI

 

Now that's more like it!! Those are the results I would have expected from the severed injector trick. Monitor your injector duty cycle to see if you are close to the limits of the injectors. Congrats and happy boosting!!

 

I watched the Mazsport vid, "day at the dyno" w/ the interceptor. They boosted up to 12.5 psi w/ stock fuel pump and injectors. I pmed Scott to ask about that duty cycle, as I'm sure it had to have been 100%. Anyway, I think, or at least hope that 8psi isn't taking the duty cycle over 90%. If so, I can live w/ 92 or so.

 

Ok, so my question now is if I should load Maddog's map or not? I mean, all is smooth and I get no bogging or anythign, just the occasional missfire flashing CEL at 5500, but it has been significantly reduced since I put in my new Denso leading plugs today. I am skeptical about loading this map b/c to be honest, my car drives smoothly and great, and I'm kinda thinking along the lines now of "if it aint broken don't fixt it". Carbon, if u had this CEL problem also at 5500 and then it went away w/ this fix, then it's a little more tempting for me to look into.

 

I did it for the entertainment value (why go to a movie when you can tune your car?), because I wanted smoother transition into boost, and because I wanted to up the boost. I wouldn't go past 5.5 psi on the stock map. Also, I will eventually replace the injectors.

I would agree. Dont just do this to do it. Drive around for a while and if you start having issues, then jump in. Everyone that owns an 8 is going to get pending P0302 codes. Fact of life. Maybe your plugs were toast? Glad you fixed it.

While I would highly recommend this fix, if you are happy with what you have, stick with it.

 

Well, the only reason I'm satisfied w/ what I got is b/c my tuners are the ones that street tuned this, so no it is not the stock map. I had countless issues w/ the stock map b/c my car was on R-flash. I have a constant CEL, and yes it flashes sumtimes around 5500. And, to answer ur ? about the plugs, they were extremely fouled, blackened after being in my car w/ the new starter kit for only 2 weeks! So, my main ? now is, are u still getting any CEL or flashing CEL since being severed??

 

Well, maybe I should wait a few weeks b4 I answer that, but since this morning, No.

Do I expect CELs in the future (particularly misfires)? Yes, of course. Nature of the beast.

What did your team do to fix the issues with the R-flash?

 

It depends on if you sever the injectors or not. There is plenty of fuel for 8 psi w/ the emanage in its original configuration. However once you sever those injectors and rely solely on the P2's you have less than 380cc available to you, unless you begin utilizing the secondary injectors again. Based on MD's emanage maps that he posted on here, you will hit 100% duty cycle at 8psi if you can maintain that boost high enough in the rev range. Just monitor your P2 duty cycles. The E-01 can easily do it with the $10 analog harness.

With the Intx you can add fuel under boost with all 6 injectors, so you have more available to you. 12.5psi was not 100% Duty cycle, but it also wasn't held to redline.

At 8psi w/ the emanage you may have other problems besides fuel though, again depending on how high you can hold boost.

 

Well, to honestly answer that...I can't. I do know that this guy who owns Rotor Sports has been building race car rotaries since 81, and has tuned many many many along the way. I have not physically seen the map since the laptop I have access to does not turn on. Anyhow, I know he just played around w/ the Emanage and tuned it very rich to be vry safe, and now I have no more bucking or bogging issues, no lean spikes etc. Then again, they built the motor, so for whatever that's worth I'm sure it played into our advantage. I'm interested in looking at the map and seeing how closely it resembles Tim's before I go any further.