deppenma

what type of word processing software do you have?
word perfect?
what about power point??

If not I will print out what i have and send you a letter via your return info from my SS box.

djgiron

You will probably have to send the letter as RP broke is poor puter and has yet to fix it. There are about 10 pages of this thread, way back somewhere, dedicated to trying to help get his computer fixed haha.

globi

Hey Richard,
Did you realize that if you get this supercharger running that you partially getting to work what Rolls Royce patented about 10 years ago? (Not that this would get you in trouble by any means, but it's interesting nevertheless.)

They patented an aircraft engine where a rotary engine drives an axial flow compressor and the exhaust gases drive an axial exhaust turbine which drive a fan.

Of course the size of the turbine blades compared to the engine are completly off and the power density of an actual turbofan could never be reached, but it must have been patented by Rolls Royce for some reasons.

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

I had not heard of this before. I can't make out how the rotory engine fits inside the turbofan in that drawing but I'd sure like to see the whole paper. How do you get that from the net? If you can.

globi

Go on:
http://free.patentfetcher.com/Patent-Fetcher-Form.php
Type in the patent number:
5692372
Then click on: Fetch

(Make sure that you have a PDF Reader installed).

Labop

The parts labeled "26" above are the rotors. You can see a front view if you download the patent file Three rotors to be precise. Nice find globi.

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

To bad it's not the same thing, wouldn't I just love them to sue me. I'd even pay them to sue me. That would put me on the map.

deppenma

almost a jet turbine engine.
Looks like the rotors are used to get the system to operational speeds.

globi

It is a turbofan engine. It substitutes the combustion chamber with 3 rotary engines to apparently reach higher efficiencies.

If you take off the axial flow turbine and the fan, it's basically a rotary engine with an axial flow compressor. That's why I mentioned it.

Also, if you read the patent you'll notice that NASA apperently worked on a similar concept in the 70's. So it's not a completly new idea.

deppenma

nice find

depending on the axial compressor would the rotary need to spinn at very high speeds 20000+ RPM.

Thats one of the main things I love about rotary engines there is allmost no max operational limit.

deppenma

RP paper designs/ideas have been sent to your email.
Let me know if you have problems with the file/document.

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

I have your study and I must say you spent some time thinking and drawing. I could use that energy myself. Anyway I think you invented the turbocharger except you replaced the shaft with a hydraulic pump and motor.
Yes it could work but would be alot of extra equipment and money.
Hyd pumps are very heavy because they make lots of pressure. Ditto the motor. Cast iron with steel rotors.

If you want to think about something try a high pressure axial flow compressor that lets it fluid expand in a turbine that then drives a centifugal compressor or another AF in series with the first for very high boost applications like tractor pullers. Say 100+ psi or Pr of 7 or more.

Still I like the effort. You might try some of those things on the goverment for a grant. If I could do it right I would present them something. Just have to know the BS to print with it. Read some of the grants they have given and you'll get the idea. How about a spherical piston? Got a patent on it too. How stupid do you have to be??

zoom44

combine his "turbo" with my "jet engine" and we can have a "turbojet"!! tm copyright all license reserved etc etc.

deppenma

Is the axial turbocharger (direct drive shaft from axial expansion turbine to axial compressor turbine) feasible depending on the exhaust turbine material.

Might be worth looking in to in the future.


When I get board at work (R&D) my mind tends to think about these things.

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

Zoom44
Yes, there has been a guy calling me about that, I think his name is Whittle.
That might not be exactly how he spells it, British accent and all. He's looking for you but I didn't have your number.

Then when I woke up it didn't seem to matter.

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

Yes, it's been done. Sorry. The thing that hasn't been done is the expandable air to start with. Just never gonna get that perpetual motion machine done no matter what I try.

Anyone out there invented the breeder reactor yet? Or cold fusion?

Photic

Yes cold fusion has been done, but the power they have received from it so far hasn't been completely worth while, but they are on the right track.

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

Ah yes, but can you put a unit number on "cold"?
Therein lies the quirk.

globi

Actually the original turbocharger patent from 1905 shows an axial flow compressor and axial flow turbine (couldn't find a better picture):


And ABB makes turbocharger with axial flow turbines:

deppenma

yes axial compressor but the exhaust side looks like the standard designs of today.


I was looking for a turbo like setup but with both sides being an axial flow compressorand axial flow expansion turbine.

globi

I'm not sure what you are referring to, but the ABB turbocharger has a radial compressor and an axial exhaust turbine. Intake = blue, exhaust = orange.

As I said the turbocharger design that was patented 101 years ago, had both axial flow compressor and axial flow turbine.

With an axial compressor in a turbocharger you'd need several stages in order to reach the same pressure ratio as with a single radial compressor wheel. It would make it more complicated and increase the rotational mass and you'd end up with a giant turbohole.

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

My father used to tell me that I was a wealth of useless information.
Ya see dad, I could've had more.

globi

At least if you read, you don't necessarily end up repeating errors or develop products others came with already.
Besides I don't know whether this is the actual reason why we don't have axial flow compressors in turbochargers. So I can only guess, but this is how I would explain it.

Also last year was the centennial of the turbocharger, so many people probably read about its invention anyway - after all pretty much all ships, trains and trucks are fitted with turbochargers.

deppenma

With the better picture now I see what you were talking about globi.
I thought axial flow compressors were more efficent than a radial compressor wheel. Hence this project to develop an axial flow supercharger.

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

I thought it was conventional to call those "radial" compressor wheels centrifugal

Cheers,
Hymee.