guitarjunkie28

think i'd have good results pissing methanol into it?

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

You keep drinking that stuff and it will probably burn, but I don't know what A/F you'd run it at.

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

At least we wont see the flames.

BTW - Speaking of methanol and fuel homogenization... The other day at the drags we had a stuck relay or something with the fuel injectors when trying to start the 20B drag racing engine. The raw fuel coming out of the turbo dump pipe showed how well a rotary engine works as a fuel pump! LOL. BTW - The problem was rectified.

guitarjunkie28

fear not, i have adequit control devices for just such a thing. i think help from the meth is about the only way we're gonna see a reliable 400whp out of the renny on pump gas.

Aseras

what's your defination of reliable? a DD? meth injection <> DD. Maybe mix with E85 would make sense?

guitarjunkie28

i like meth injection. you can use pump gas and everything is normal until you step on the gas...then you only use what you need. e85 would kill the fuel economy, as well as you'd have to inject a lot more in for the same amount of power. meth is an overall more economical choice for people like me.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

The problem with methanol injection is that, since it is a highly corrosive fuel, it requires certain steps be taken and maintenance schedules to be accepted as a side-effect. Depending on where the meth is injected you may have to look forward to throttle body, intake manifold, and fuel injector o-rings to be changed quite often, along with the injection system itself. I think until we get to the point of maximizing the power potential with pump gas, meth is a waste of time and money.

CRH

guitarjunkie28

i understand where a lot of you guys are coming from with everything being in baby steps n whatnot, but imma crank up the boost once i get the renny in the first gen. since the alcohol is kept in its own system and only used under boost at higher rpm, its very unlikely it'll corrode or wear anything out anytime soon.

and i have no intention of running right up to the ragged edge of pump gas--that's just asking for trouble. the meth will increase the octane rating and give a nice safety cusion.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

The Evo8 guys, as I understand it, have to replace seals and o-rings every two years when using the meth systems. I remember when I first talked about using nitrous I got a lot of flak from people who thought I was gonna "blow my engine" and so forth. I got those messages from all different types and pointed out that the only people who wreck their engines on nitrous are either full-out racers pushing their engines to the extreme as part of competition or idiots who didn't know what detonation sounded like and kept their foot on the gas during knocking and nitrous use. My point is, with careful tuning and sharing of information we can all figure out what kind of boost pressures or other h.p. increases the Renesis can handle before problems arise. Testing the internal mechanicals has always been a partial goal of mine with the nitrous stuff and that's why I have always shared my results and stories with everyone. Since we are only now getting a handle on the PCM issue I would wait before strapping more stuff under the hood that adds to the number of variables that could go wrong. Besides, I have already shared my own stories that indicate the level of abuse the Renesis can handle without trouble. If they haven't empowered people to be more confident about this engine I don't know what else to say!

CRH

guitarjunkie28

i get what you're saying, but i play with my own toys differently than others.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Cool. After I posted that last comment I was hoping you woundn't take it mean that I thought you were among the "idiots". Quite the contrary, I think you know what you are doing and that's why I would encourage you to experiment with pump gas. After seeing some 12:1 and 13:1 comp. ratio engines run on pump gas I think the Renesis has a little headroom to play with. I figure nitrous is a good way to see what kind of housing pressures the Renesis can handle with stock rotors and pump gas. Plus, it's cheaper than a whole FI system. Any mere "coincidence" that the GReddy kit, along with most other bolt-on FI kits are limited to the same level of h.p. increase that we find with nitrous systems?

BTW, g.j., what is your specific philosophy in the play you play with your toys? I ask this in a serious way to get a litttle input from you.

CRH

guitarjunkie28

i didn't take insult at all--i know what you meant.

for what the renny can handle... it's probably going to be similar to the previous engines, as far as total hp goes. the compression ratio is the only thing i'm worried about in the pump gas department.

Aseras

with premium gas @ 3ggl and 100/110 octane race gas only $5/g better off just running the straight race gas, or diluting with toluene or xylene

lesper4

iTrader: (3)

reguarding the thread topic - as Red 5 would say, "Stay on target, stay on target" Jedi do you get it?

guitarjunkie28

i think you're missing the point of metanol injection. i can run 87 octane and save $.20 per gallon and have the meth active only under boost at higher rpm's. why waste money on high-octane fuel when 90% of the time, you're just cruising.

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

haha, I love it! Haven't heard that quote in a long time.

guitarjunkie28

hey, i was semi on-target since imma steal an a/f from richard when i drop his motor off.

zoom44

just dont steal Torque. Torque went missing when Hymee was there

guitarjunkie28

richard is the only rotary owner with torque

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Beg pardon :P

Me were first. Then Wildcard.

globi

No, colder air holds less moisture since vapor pressure goes down. Vapor pressure is directly dependant on temperature. So, hotter air can take more moisture. This is also why water injection can cool down the intake charge significantly (since water takes energy from the air in order to evaporate and reach its according vapor pressure at that temperature).
Which btw might be a nice alternative to other intercooling options, since it doesn't require significant adaptations. In addition you can turn it on or off when you want, so you simply don't intercool when it might hurt power.

I believe it wasn't just homogenization that made this concept more efficient:
1. By heating the intake charge you can also reduce pumping losses. Hotter air is less dense, so you need to open the throttle more to let the same amount of air pass. (And a higher throttle setting reduces pumping losses.)
2. Hotter air will also accelerate the combustion speed (even if it is not homogenized in the first place). And more pressure at TDC equals less pressure when the exhaust port opens and therefore less loss (=higher efficiency).

Just my $0.02

rotor_man

Chalk one up to Down Under! Early adopters of rotaries, plenty of firsts and fastest!

guitarjunkie28

i wasn't referring to the blower, i was talking about the dog

RX8 Wannabe

Speaking of Torque, do we have any torque numbers yet? ...

p.s. How is good 'ol Torque anyways?

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

Pumping losss.......that's something we haven't talked about at all. I'll not go into a RG style lecture here but we should consider it. There was a professor and I can't remember what campus but it might have been in So Cal, like USC or so.

I read about his work and called him because of homginazation but his work really didn't parallel mine in that way. With His it was a byproduct. He had built a throttleless engine controlled by inlet temprature. His gains were from less pumping loss. His work proved the point that it does work.

I don't remember the details but the thing was really mute because power modulation was very slow as you can guess. The only place you could use it would be on a ship where you don't change demand often. Plus you have room to work. Except of course in the harbor, there you can use tugs.

Anyway it was a good grant for the school. Why don't I think of these things?

To sum this up I'll leave one thought. This is why smaller engines get better MPG.
Plus all the internal friction and extra wieght, more frontal area .....Bla Bla Bla.
Just trying to get it out before you do. But everyone forgets the pumping loss.

Lets say that the pumping loss were helped along because there was a more efficient vacuum pump (axial flow) sucking it all in? Would there be some gains at the flywheel?