Axial Flow Supercharger
12-14-2006, 03:47 PM
#4576
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Hey Richard, do you attend the Reno races? I've never been, but read all about them every year in Air Classics. Great stuff on the racing engines!
Hopefully my father and I will make it out there in the next two years...
Hopefully my father and I will make it out there in the next two years...
12-14-2006, 06:07 PM
#4578
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Originally Posted by r0tor
glad to see i'm not off my rocker 
I'm going to check into see if there is any increased compression with water injection from better sealing. I don't believe so but i'm not sure... air outlet temps are definately decreased though
I'm going to check into see if there is any increased compression with water injection from better sealing. I don't believe so but i'm not sure... air outlet temps are definately decreased though
12-15-2006, 06:27 AM
#4579
A RP a friend of mine owned Stilleto. He said he could only use 50% power for takeoff or it would groundloop. At full boost he was getting 3000hp. What a machine.
John
John
12-18-2006, 03:36 PM
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A few more points regarding water injection.
Plain water has the advantage that it can cool the intake charge more than water mixed with methanol and thus further increase air density. However water mixed with methanol has a few advantages:
- it doesn't freeze
- it doesn't grow algae
- it reduces surface tension of liquid and improves evaporation. (This might be less important with an efficient 'nebulizer'.)
- air can be saturated with water (rainy day) but this will never be the case with methanol (otherwise there would be other things to worry about). However, even when it rains heated air after SC can still evaporate water.
- it can substitute gasoline and further reduce detonation risk. (However in this application boost is obviously too low to worry about this and if too much methanol is added without increasing air fuel ratio it will run too rich - since methanol as opposed to water will burn oxygen).
Until the 70's passenger air liners were also using water injection on their jet engines in order to increase thrust at take off (= reduced temperature = increased air density = more mass flow = thrust). However passenger air liners from today have turbofans with a much higher by pass ratio and thus generating significantly more thrust without needing to increase air density (and needing to carry an additional watertank including water injection system).
Plain water has the advantage that it can cool the intake charge more than water mixed with methanol and thus further increase air density. However water mixed with methanol has a few advantages:
- it doesn't freeze
- it doesn't grow algae
- it reduces surface tension of liquid and improves evaporation. (This might be less important with an efficient 'nebulizer'.)
- air can be saturated with water (rainy day) but this will never be the case with methanol (otherwise there would be other things to worry about). However, even when it rains heated air after SC can still evaporate water.
- it can substitute gasoline and further reduce detonation risk. (However in this application boost is obviously too low to worry about this and if too much methanol is added without increasing air fuel ratio it will run too rich - since methanol as opposed to water will burn oxygen).
Until the 70's passenger air liners were also using water injection on their jet engines in order to increase thrust at take off (= reduced temperature = increased air density = more mass flow = thrust). However passenger air liners from today have turbofans with a much higher by pass ratio and thus generating significantly more thrust without needing to increase air density (and needing to carry an additional watertank including water injection system).
Last edited by globi; 12-18-2006 at 03:48 PM.
12-22-2006, 09:33 AM
#4581
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probably gonna get flamed for this cuz i dont feel like searching through the 300pages.. (this thread gets really off topic lol...)
this is estimate at 240whp, correct? @ what boost level?
also in regards to richard pauls post... does this mean it will be safe to run nitrous with the AFSC? so that 5lbs of nitrous and the kit will put us at approx 300-350whp?
this is estimate at 240whp, correct? @ what boost level?
also in regards to richard pauls post... does this mean it will be safe to run nitrous with the AFSC? so that 5lbs of nitrous and the kit will put us at approx 300-350whp?
12-25-2006, 07:04 PM
#4583
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to piggy back on Lil benNy's comment... i have no desire to read the last couple hundred pages and pick up where i left off.. is it possible for anyone who has kept up to recap the basics? such as release estimates, cost guesses, whp expected.. basically i want to know if it is worth it to catch up on all the reading, or just be very satisfied with pettits s/c and stick with waiting for it to release in couple months
12-25-2006, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
1) Eventually
2) Nominal and market-based
3) 200 to 350 at the wheels
You don't want the Petit unit.
2) Nominal and market-based
3) 200 to 350 at the wheels
You don't want the Petit unit.
12-25-2006, 11:24 PM
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MM, can you explain... i never followed FI untill about 6 months ago, but from what i have read and learned it seems to be a excellent product in the making... to keep this thread on track, feel free to email me cmasoner@hawaii.rr.com
12-26-2006, 12:01 AM
#4589
Paulmasoner the Axial Flow SC has been touted as the most efficient SC, because of its design. The numerous stages of blades helps prevent the air from compressing too fast which cuts down on the amount of heat that is produced. As most of us have learned a hot intake temp can not hold as much oxygen per square inch as colder air.
Ever noticed when the outside temp is cooler the car seems to have more power?
Ever noticed when the outside temp is cooler the car seems to have more power?
12-26-2006, 12:56 AM
#4590
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Yes i remember reading a little bit now about the way the compressor stages work, been a while though... any other points i should take into consideration when deciding whether to go with Pettit, or wait till whenever RP is complete? I understand that noone can just "set" a release date.. but it does seem that the other will be filling orders in just a couple months now as design is done. Basically i am trying to decide if it is worth it to wait as this is not an investment i will make twice due to a poor decision, but also i am not willing to wait unless it is definately worthwhile. Thanks guys for your responses, i am currently in the process of cathing up on a couple hundred pages, lol
12-26-2006, 11:24 PM
#4591
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I don't think its a very good idea to tell people to stay away from any particular kit, especially when its not out yet....pettit looks to have a great product and saying something like that could give them a bad rep to people who would otherwise buy the product and enjoy it
12-27-2006, 12:09 AM
#4593
From what I read the "bad rep" was remedied as they made right by the customer.
Not sure if it was seen as the thread was deleted so as not to tarnish their rep further at such a critical time with the SC coming out.
Since we bring up their SC in RP's thread again... Richard do you have any input on their kit?
Not sure if it was seen as the thread was deleted so as not to tarnish their rep further at such a critical time with the SC coming out.
Since we bring up their SC in RP's thread again... Richard do you have any input on their kit?
12-28-2006, 07:18 AM
#4597
I have known the guys at Pettit for over 15 years. They started fixing the problems on the FDs before anyone else,(coolant expansion tank). He has been testing his Supercharger on his car. He will not release it until he is comfortable that is as reliable as a factory install. It will be a reliable and safe product when it comes out. I have been in Cam's car and this is the fix the RX-8 needs.
I think RP's concerns are the same am as comfortable with his finished product as Pettit's. It is going to be a question of what type of SC do you want. Both will be great products at about the same price.
John
I think RP's concerns are the same am as comfortable with his finished product as Pettit's. It is going to be a question of what type of SC do you want. Both will be great products at about the same price.
John
12-28-2006, 09:58 PM
#4599
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I met Cam and Candy at Petit, and got to ride in their SC'd 8. They have put 20,000 miles on a FI Renesis and pulled it apart to make sure there were no problems. I think they are quite serious - and if the AFSC wasn;t an option, I would go with Petit's once available. Just a shame it's taking everyone such a long time to make it work. I did love the feel of the 8 with the SC- as opposed to the Greddy'd 8 I rode in.
