Axial Flow Supercharger
03-09-2005, 12:11 PM
#1477
Kaiten Kenbu Rokuren
Originally Posted by Richard Paul
Well I don't know if you are right, it depends on what you ment. I designed and built the Latham that I relesed in 1983. That was entirely my own design, it just used the old name. The current blower under development is also a new design but has it's roots in the '83 design. That said I have learned an awfull lot in 20 years. Plus the manufacturing method has benifited much from recent CAD/CAM advances. Also the machine tool controls have improved.
To answer the other question, I will post some test data as soon as I find it and set up my new scanner. A test by Airflow Research For Car Craft tested 4 blowers againsr each otherr all limited to 7 psi. My unit added twice what the next best blower did.
Something like 70hp vs 143hp. baseline was 320hp
I'll find a copy of it. Hymee has a copy and probably has a scanner and knows how to use it. Don't you Hymee?
To answer the other question, I will post some test data as soon as I find it and set up my new scanner. A test by Airflow Research For Car Craft tested 4 blowers againsr each otherr all limited to 7 psi. My unit added twice what the next best blower did.
Something like 70hp vs 143hp. baseline was 320hp
I'll find a copy of it. Hymee has a copy and probably has a scanner and knows how to use it. Don't you Hymee?
03-09-2005, 01:48 PM
#1481
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Originally Posted by RP
To answer the other question, I will post some test data as soon as I find it and set up my new scanner. A test by Airflow Research For Car Craft tested 4 blowers againsr each otherr all limited to 7 psi. My unit added twice what the next best blower did.
03-09-2005, 05:36 PM
#1482
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Peak efficiency is higher with the axial flow meaning every pound of boost gives you more power. It also has the least parasitic loss of any supercharger. I know some people say this isn't possible because it takes power to make power and there definitely is a limit to how little loss you can have but some superchargers are just very hard to turn. I played with a Procharger last night at my friend's shop and that thing is crazy hard to spin.
03-09-2005, 09:09 PM
#1484
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So Richard, maybe I've missed it in all this aircraft and general chatter... 
... but where exactly are you with this project? Have you gotten a unit plumbed and fitted to an RX-8 yet? If so, what are you doing about engine management? And, how close are you to completing and getting this kit on the market?
... but where exactly are you with this project? Have you gotten a unit plumbed and fitted to an RX-8 yet? If so, what are you doing about engine management? And, how close are you to completing and getting this kit on the market?
03-09-2005, 09:13 PM
#1485
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I think he's still working on the SC and they are purchasing an rx8 for fitment real soon.
Originally Posted by Omicron
So Richard, maybe I've missed it in all this aircraft and general chatter... ... but where exactly are you with this project? Have you gotten a unit plumbed and fitted to an RX-8 yet? If so, what are you doing about engine management? And, how close are you to completing and getting this kit on the market?
... but where exactly are you with this project? Have you gotten a unit plumbed and fitted to an RX-8 yet? If so, what are you doing about engine management? And, how close are you to completing and getting this kit on the market?
03-09-2005, 11:19 PM
#1486
See Omi, he pays attention. I'm looking at two cars now and trying to make a deal. As soon as we have one we will start fitment. Do you have your shifter in yet? Get somefeedback on the shifter installed thread.
I was going to put the new compressor together this week but the damn week keeps going by. The blades are cut I just need to check all the clearances stage to stage and in composite. It just takes time and no one to bother me. My attention span is like that of my dog. It's ok until he thinks of something else. Or someone comes over.
I'm leaning towards the E manage as it has an optional loom for two extra injectors. It can control those separetly. I think it will be nice to keep the stock maps intact until the manifold goes positive. Then the extra nozzles can add the fuel. This will allow me to get through CARB on the stock maps, They don't go into full throttle for the epa tests. The compressor will not show upp during testing it is just spinning away with the airflow. It will not effect a thing.
My only worry is that the TB will be moved and we know how sensitive the rotary is to anything to do with the air inlet. I have my thoughts on it though. It is a learning curve that hopefully will not take to long. I'm going to instrement the car with all sorts of sensors that can record everything I can think of. It should be a rolling test lab. Gone are the days of having one guy reading each gauge and reporting it later.
My theory of homoginization is going to be tried here. It is something that no one else can take advantage of. The extra nozzles will be on the inlet side between the blower and the TB. The intake manifold might be a problem and require me to make a casting, that I don't want to. It isn't the polymer part that people are thinking, it is the location of the inlet and legnth.
It would be time consuming and expensive. Tooling costs are hard to recover on this low production kit.
I was going to put the new compressor together this week but the damn week keeps going by. The blades are cut I just need to check all the clearances stage to stage and in composite. It just takes time and no one to bother me. My attention span is like that of my dog. It's ok until he thinks of something else. Or someone comes over.
I'm leaning towards the E manage as it has an optional loom for two extra injectors. It can control those separetly. I think it will be nice to keep the stock maps intact until the manifold goes positive. Then the extra nozzles can add the fuel. This will allow me to get through CARB on the stock maps, They don't go into full throttle for the epa tests. The compressor will not show upp during testing it is just spinning away with the airflow. It will not effect a thing.
My only worry is that the TB will be moved and we know how sensitive the rotary is to anything to do with the air inlet. I have my thoughts on it though. It is a learning curve that hopefully will not take to long. I'm going to instrement the car with all sorts of sensors that can record everything I can think of. It should be a rolling test lab. Gone are the days of having one guy reading each gauge and reporting it later.
My theory of homoginization is going to be tried here. It is something that no one else can take advantage of. The extra nozzles will be on the inlet side between the blower and the TB. The intake manifold might be a problem and require me to make a casting, that I don't want to. It isn't the polymer part that people are thinking, it is the location of the inlet and legnth.
It would be time consuming and expensive. Tooling costs are hard to recover on this low production kit.
03-09-2005, 11:43 PM
#1488
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Thanks for the update, Richard. I actually have been paying attention, but like many, like to see a summary/update from time to time... it helps keep interest in this great project high too.
Oh, and I hope to have time to install the RP short shifter this weekend too. You can be sure I'll post my impressions when I do!
Sure sounds like you're going about things the right way. Keep up the good work man, and if you get hungry, you can always snack on a Milk Bone. :D
Oh, and I hope to have time to install the RP short shifter this weekend too. You can be sure I'll post my impressions when I do!
Sure sounds like you're going about things the right way. Keep up the good work man, and if you get hungry, you can always snack on a Milk Bone. :D
03-10-2005, 08:04 AM
#1489
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Richard,
I just have to say something here. I think it is really commendable that you are doing this project, especially knowing that it will be a low production kit.
Not only are you actually machining your own compressor parts and building your own compressor, you're also buying a car yourself (instead of asking for guniea pigs).
I can only assume that your investment in this product is high, and will only be climbing!
So, a big Thanks from myself and others who may feel the same! I know that won't mean much till the units start selling =)
Hey, so are you buying an s2000 also?
One last thing.. Can you charge the S2000 guys more, and give us a discount ? =D
I just have to say something here. I think it is really commendable that you are doing this project, especially knowing that it will be a low production kit.
Not only are you actually machining your own compressor parts and building your own compressor, you're also buying a car yourself (instead of asking for guniea pigs).
I can only assume that your investment in this product is high, and will only be climbing!
So, a big Thanks from myself and others who may feel the same! I know that won't mean much till the units start selling =)
Hey, so are you buying an s2000 also?
One last thing.. Can you charge the S2000 guys more, and give us a discount ? =D
03-10-2005, 12:40 PM
#1491
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Mr. Paul, congradulations on 100 pages. Did I see in your last post that you are making this "carb" legal. If so that's great!!! I didn't know you had a short shifter. Guess I'll have to do a search for it. I'm guessing it's been getting great reviews since others are recommending it. BTW, I'd also like to say thank you for investing so much on this project. I can't wait till it's done and one of these is in my RX8. 
03-10-2005, 01:19 PM
#1492
Kaiten Kenbu Rokuren
Originally Posted by BLACKLIST
Mr. Paul, congradulations on 100 pages. Did I see in your last post that you are making this "carb" legal. If so that's great!!! I didn't know you had a short shifter. Guess I'll have to do a search for it. I'm guessing it's been getting great reviews since others are recommending it. BTW, I'd also like to say thank you for investing so much on this project. I can't wait till it's done and one of these is in my RX8.
The shifter is supposed to be awesome and we'd all like to think this FI kit will be up to par as well. I don't remember the CARB legal thing, and I'm not too worried about it anyway. But if it is true, I'll have to find a way to change that :p
03-10-2005, 01:40 PM
#1493
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Originally Posted by Zaku-8
Whats the difference between rear inlet and front inlet? What is front and rear on the AFSC?
Woohoo! 101 pages!
03-10-2005, 01:46 PM
#1494
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What diferences are caused by which direction the air flows through the inlets?
Originally Posted by rotarygod
The front is the side the pulley is on.
Woohoo! 101 pages!
Woohoo! 101 pages!
03-10-2005, 02:05 PM
#1495
The low pressure side is always more critical the the high side. Therefore with the rear inlet no restriction exists. If it goes radial then we must use a facctor in the design which is called out as "duct efficency". Obviously you can use 98% for the axial rear inlet. Making it bend around costs you and the number you put in for the calcs is a guess.
Intake ports are where all the power is made on a set of heads. If it gets in it'll get out. Not saying ex doesn't count it is just easier to get working. It doesn't have to go in but it has to go out.
This is an air pump just like the engine is.
The only reason I would go to the radial inlet is to help packaging. It is not the end of the world but I'm just that **** about it.
Intake ports are where all the power is made on a set of heads. If it gets in it'll get out. Not saying ex doesn't count it is just easier to get working. It doesn't have to go in but it has to go out.
This is an air pump just like the engine is.
The only reason I would go to the radial inlet is to help packaging. It is not the end of the world but I'm just that **** about it.
03-10-2005, 02:24 PM
#1496
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Given the locations of the pulley and the intake manifold, it appears to the novice that to minimize bends, you want the air coming in the front and exiting the AFS to the rear to have a direct path to the intake. Placing the inlet at the rear would seem (again to the novice) to require the fresh air coming in from the front would need to be bent 180 degrees to enter the AFS, and the the boosted air coming out the front of the AFS would need to be bent 180 degrees to get to the intake.
Is the airflow restriction around the pulley's drive mechanism enough of a design factor to turn the whole AFS around? Are there other design parameters that we novices are ignorant of? Enlighten us, please?
Is the airflow restriction around the pulley's drive mechanism enough of a design factor to turn the whole AFS around? Are there other design parameters that we novices are ignorant of? Enlighten us, please?
03-10-2005, 02:36 PM
#1497
Yes it would seem that way, BUT. The 180 degree bends are large radius. The bend inside the blower is restrictive. With the external bends it is possable to design them for very little resistance. If they must be shorter you have the option of making them shaped to help. Look at the Odulia intake pipe for a well designed turn.
In that instance it is a waste as the thing is big and the air is going to slow. Yet it was a nice try. Someone knew the theorys. It will show you what is done when space is limited and the turn must be sharp. This is an option externally. hard to do in a port.
In that instance it is a waste as the thing is big and the air is going to slow. Yet it was a nice try. Someone knew the theorys. It will show you what is done when space is limited and the turn must be sharp. This is an option externally. hard to do in a port.
03-10-2005, 03:05 PM
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This is bureau13's avatar. Did somebody say "Milk Bone?"
skye
skye
Originally Posted by Omicron
...Sure sounds like you're going about things the right way. Keep up the good work man, and if you get hungry, you can always snack on a Milk Bone. :D