Brettus turbo 11
11-04-2013, 04:38 PM
#677
A bit more analysis of the results ............ If I move the lines over a bit :
It seems the only rpm range where power is less is between 5900 and 6800 (area shown in pink). The rest looks identical.
Possible conclusion might be that WI from 6800rpm onwards is ideal but too much before that.
It seems the only rpm range where power is less is between 5900 and 6800 (area shown in pink). The rest looks identical.
Possible conclusion might be that WI from 6800rpm onwards is ideal but too much before that.
Last edited by Brettus; 11-04-2013 at 04:53 PM.
11-04-2013, 06:07 PM
#681
he's not injecting that early
11-04-2013, 07:24 PM
#682
Yeah . Starts injecting at 12psi which works out around 4300ish.
what i need (i think) is a 2 stage system .
Hmmmm . i have a relay and a way of triggering it at whatever rpm I want . Wonder if I could go from 6v to 12v and achieve that without spending much ................???????
Think a visit to my friendly electronics store is in order .
what i need (i think) is a 2 stage system .
Hmmmm . i have a relay and a way of triggering it at whatever rpm I want . Wonder if I could go from 6v to 12v and achieve that without spending much ................???????
Think a visit to my friendly electronics store is in order .
Last edited by Brettus; 11-04-2013 at 07:33 PM.
11-04-2013, 08:09 PM
#683
lmao can I see a pic of you working on your car? 
Thought I may as well start a new thread for this seeing as there are significant differences between this set up and the last .
Engine :
Doweled
RX7 (deep) ALS apex seals
Brettspeed modified centre port runner (removed after unsuccessfull tests)
Rx8 performance engine mounts
Turbo :
Rebuilt Greddy
60-1 compressor wheel (same as BNR)
Clipped turbine
fabricated 60mm intake tube
internally polished Greddy outlet pipe
600x260x75 Intercooler
Gearbox :
5 speed ex JDM RX8
Ratios :
5 speed vs 6 speed g/box
1/3.483..............3.76
2/2.015...............2.27
3/1.391...............1.54
4/1.00...............1.19
5/0.76...............1.00
6/.....................0.84
Clutch
Exeddy stage 1
Fuel :
Walbro 255 pump
yellow/yellow/blue injectors
upgraded 06/2013 to yellow/blue/uncapped yellow 380/480/600
Tuning :
Mazdaedit/Brettspeed
Engine is dressed and almost ready for install at time of writing . Currently just tidying up a few loose ends.
Goals :
350 WHP on 11PSI
12s 1/4 mile
last longer than the last engine : 40,000 miles
Engine :
Doweled
RX7 (deep) ALS apex seals
Brettspeed modified centre port runner (removed after unsuccessfull tests)
Rx8 performance engine mounts
Turbo :
Rebuilt Greddy
60-1 compressor wheel (same as BNR)
Clipped turbine
fabricated 60mm intake tube
internally polished Greddy outlet pipe
600x260x75 Intercooler
Gearbox :
5 speed ex JDM RX8
Ratios :
5 speed vs 6 speed g/box
1/3.483..............3.76
2/2.015...............2.27
3/1.391...............1.54
4/1.00...............1.19
5/0.76...............1.00
6/.....................0.84
Clutch
Exeddy stage 1
Fuel :
Walbro 255 pump
yellow/yellow/blue injectors
upgraded 06/2013 to yellow/blue/uncapped yellow 380/480/600
Tuning :
Mazdaedit/Brettspeed
Engine is dressed and almost ready for install at time of writing . Currently just tidying up a few loose ends.
Goals :
350 WHP on 11PSI
12s 1/4 mile
last longer than the last engine : 40,000 miles
11-05-2013, 06:11 AM
#685
not sure if i missed it but are you using the throttle body spacer or are you injecting water from another location?
11-05-2013, 10:40 PM
#686
Driving my unreliable rx8
AFR's should stay the same because any reduced airflow would mean reduced fuel.
I don't think MAF g/sec would really change, with 200 cc/min of water
1 gal = about 3800 cc's. 200/3800= 0.052 gallons/7.48gal per ft3=0.00695 SCFM of air displaced
At 15 PSI he's moving 800+ CFM
11-05-2013, 11:09 PM
#687
Driving my unreliable rx8
Brett, do you have any electronics to help as a safety? I've been thinking about using my spare LC1 signal to trip a vac solenoid(maybe the VDI) and have it open the BOV. Or cut the throttle
With a small step down converter you could also install oil pressure and fuel switch, that would do the same thing if either of them fall below your set point.
I'm thinking it could be done with one small photesensor relay module off ebay for 5-10 dollars. Plus the adjustable fuel and oil switches at 10 each. The whole thing could be done for around 50 dollars.
With a small step down converter you could also install oil pressure and fuel switch, that would do the same thing if either of them fall below your set point.
I'm thinking it could be done with one small photesensor relay module off ebay for 5-10 dollars. Plus the adjustable fuel and oil switches at 10 each. The whole thing could be done for around 50 dollars.
11-06-2013, 01:29 PM
#689
I have no experiance with this at all so it's all thoughts.
AFR's should stay the same because any reduced airflow would mean reduced fuel.
I don't think MAF g/sec would really change, with 200 cc/min of water
1 gal = about 3800 cc's. 200/3800= 0.052 gallons/7.48gal per ft3=0.00695 SCFM of air displaced
At 15 PSI he's moving 800+ CFM
AFR's should stay the same because any reduced airflow would mean reduced fuel.
I don't think MAF g/sec would really change, with 200 cc/min of water
1 gal = about 3800 cc's. 200/3800= 0.052 gallons/7.48gal per ft3=0.00695 SCFM of air displaced
At 15 PSI he's moving 800+ CFM
a bit less than 1% water by mass .
plus fuel at 1/11 x 400 = 36g/s
so at peak power:
400g/s air
36g/s fuel
3.3g/s water
11-06-2013, 02:43 PM
#690
Brett, do you have any electronics to help as a safety? I've been thinking about using my spare LC1 signal to trip a vac solenoid(maybe the VDI) and have it open the BOV. Or cut the throttle
With a small step down converter you could also install oil pressure and fuel switch, that would do the same thing if either of them fall below your set point.
I'm thinking it could be done with one small photesensor relay module off ebay for 5-10 dollars. Plus the adjustable fuel and oil switches at 10 each. The whole thing could be done for around 50 dollars.
With a small step down converter you could also install oil pressure and fuel switch, that would do the same thing if either of them fall below your set point.
I'm thinking it could be done with one small photesensor relay module off ebay for 5-10 dollars. Plus the adjustable fuel and oil switches at 10 each. The whole thing could be done for around 50 dollars.
It worked fine - used a the spare air pump solenoid and diverted vacuum to BOV if boost went too high.
Have thought about doing the same with fuel pressure (if it drops below 50psi or so) but have not got around to it .
11-06-2013, 05:00 PM
#691
So ... I got my 2 stage system all hooked up and working . Set it (via VFAD wireing and ecu) to come on at 6800rpm .
Did 5 back to back logs at various combinations of water/no water and varying output for the first stage .
Results - all logs look the same.... LOL . The road i used for the first set of logs was much better so will have to try again if i want something definitive .
Anyway - what i can say is :
That the reduction in performance is negligible at worst.
The EGTs are not altered at the rate i'm injecting at.
Mass airflow seems a tad higher if anything.
Now .... moar bewst ................
Did 5 back to back logs at various combinations of water/no water and varying output for the first stage .
Results - all logs look the same.... LOL . The road i used for the first set of logs was much better so will have to try again if i want something definitive .
Anyway - what i can say is :
That the reduction in performance is negligible at worst.
The EGTs are not altered at the rate i'm injecting at.
Mass airflow seems a tad higher if anything.
Now .... moar bewst ................
Last edited by Brettus; 11-06-2013 at 05:06 PM.
11-06-2013, 08:26 PM
#692
adding any meth yet? I'm curious to see what iat is or how beneficial it ism you spoke of the pings you were getting at a higher boost level. I'm sure the meth could help with that
Posted From RX8Club.com Android App
Posted From RX8Club.com Android App
11-06-2013, 09:26 PM
#693
So ... I got my 2 stage system all hooked up and working . Set it (via VFAD wireing and ecu) to come on at 6800rpm .
Did 5 back to back logs at various combinations of water/no water and varying output for the first stage .
Results - all logs look the same.... LOL . The road i used for the first set of logs was much better so will have to try again if i want something definitive .
Anyway - what i can say is :
That the reduction in performance is negligible at worst.
The EGTs are not altered at the rate i'm injecting at.
Mass airflow seems a tad higher if anything.
Now .... moar bewst ................
Did 5 back to back logs at various combinations of water/no water and varying output for the first stage .
Results - all logs look the same.... LOL . The road i used for the first set of logs was much better so will have to try again if i want something definitive .
Anyway - what i can say is :
That the reduction in performance is negligible at worst.
The EGTs are not altered at the rate i'm injecting at.
Mass airflow seems a tad higher if anything.
Now .... moar bewst ................
11-06-2013, 11:31 PM
#694
And that's the main reason for the water - to reduce that tendency . Why introduce another fuel into the mix to overcomplicate a simple strategy ?
11-07-2013, 04:18 PM
#697
Driving my unreliable rx8
Is the extra low AFR to keep things cool or does the extra fuel do something specific?
Could you pull fuel and add water to compensate for the volume of fuel you pull?
Say Target AFR of 11:1 so that's 9.9g fuel for 100g air
But MBT is around 13:1 or 7.69g fuel to 100 grams air
So would reducing fuel to 7.69g and adding 2.2 grams of water per 100g air be about the same results as running 11:1
I'm sure the Latent heat of vaporization fits in there too, but by reducing the waste fuel in the exhaust I bet it would drop EGT's.
Could you pull fuel and add water to compensate for the volume of fuel you pull?
Say Target AFR of 11:1 so that's 9.9g fuel for 100g air
But MBT is around 13:1 or 7.69g fuel to 100 grams air
So would reducing fuel to 7.69g and adding 2.2 grams of water per 100g air be about the same results as running 11:1
I'm sure the Latent heat of vaporization fits in there too, but by reducing the waste fuel in the exhaust I bet it would drop EGT's.
11-07-2013, 06:00 PM
#698
Is the extra low AFR to keep things cool or does the extra fuel do something specific?
Could you pull fuel and add water to compensate for the volume of fuel you pull?
Say Target AFR of 11:1 so that's 9.9g fuel for 100g air
But MBT is around 13:1 or 7.69g fuel to 100 grams air
So would reducing fuel to 7.69g and adding 2.2 grams of water per 100g air be about the same results as running 11:1
I'm sure the Latent heat of vaporization fits in there too, but by reducing the waste fuel in the exhaust I bet it would drop EGT's.
Could you pull fuel and add water to compensate for the volume of fuel you pull?
Say Target AFR of 11:1 so that's 9.9g fuel for 100g air
But MBT is around 13:1 or 7.69g fuel to 100 grams air
So would reducing fuel to 7.69g and adding 2.2 grams of water per 100g air be about the same results as running 11:1
I'm sure the Latent heat of vaporization fits in there too, but by reducing the waste fuel in the exhaust I bet it would drop EGT's.
11-08-2013, 02:33 PM
#699
Found this article on what fluids to use . There are several other really interesting articles on this site .
What Type Of Fluids Can I Use With My Water Methanol Injection System
Would really like to find a source for the type of windshield washer fluids they mention as my tank is doubling as a windshield washer reservoir.
What Type Of Fluids Can I Use With My Water Methanol Injection System
Would really like to find a source for the type of windshield washer fluids they mention as my tank is doubling as a windshield washer reservoir.