I feel a big rush of power around 7250rpm. Maybe it's just a coincidence?
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Perhaps it's different on a SC setup ??? I have mucked around with it a lot and eventually decided it was better for the powerband that it didn't open when it does . Might be an advantage to leave it open rather than closed ...haven't tried that .
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Did a test to check boost pressure drop over the intercooler and pipework . Looks like around 2psi total at peak rpm (7500) and close to zero at 4000rpm .
Boost at manifold : https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...ee2c75290e.png Boost at turbo: https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...dd508136da.png From this and other previous tests I believe I have the following pressure losses (at 14.5psi) in the system at this point: Intercooler pipework turbo to intake mani. : 2.5 psi Muffler system : 2.5psi Intake system : 1.5 psi None of the above is huge but you can see they all add up and each has an effect on turbine back-pressure.The task to get turbine back-pressure down further from here is very difficult and expensive. I can now see how it would be a crap load easier to get the best WHP from a top mount system. |
Originally Posted by Brettus
(Post 4853670)
The task to get turbine back-pressure down further from here is very difficult and expensive. I can now see how it would be a crap load easier to get the best WHP from a top mount system.
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Originally Posted by Brettus
(Post 4853670)
From this and other previous tests I believe I have the following pressure losses (at 14.5psi) in the system at this point:
Intercooler pipework turbo to intake mani. : 2.5 psi Muffler system : 2.5psi Intake system : 1.5 psi None of the above is huge but you can see they all add up and each has an effect on turbine back-pressure.The task to get turbine back-pressure down further from here is very difficult and expensive. I can now see how it would be a crap load easier to get the best WHP from a top mount system. Edit: Would be good to compare this with losses on a Greddy setup, being the most common turbo setup. For those that want to tweak their Greddy setups for more efficiency. |
Originally Posted by JimmyBlack
(Post 4853752)
Great analysis Brett, thanks for sharing your findings.
Edit: Would be good to compare this with losses on a Greddy setup, being the most common turbo setup. For those that want to tweak their Greddy setups for more efficiency. |
That's right, with my best Greddy setup at 7krpm and 10psi the exhaust manifold backpressure was 33psi, giving a BPR (back pressure ratio) of 3.3:1 - pretty inefficient and unhealthy for a turbo setup. I'm hoping my new setup with Greddy manifold and external wastegate will give a lower ratio (will update my thread after this weekend).
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Have any of you guys measured temps at the compressor outlet? I doubt it but thought I would ask.
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Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8
(Post 4853881)
Have any of you guys measured temps at the compressor outlet? I doubt it but thought I would ask.
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I just know some high HP turbo drag guys use the temperature at the compressor outlet to determine if the backpressure is too high. But you need an IAT sensor that will read to like 400F or so.
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Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8
(Post 4853982)
I just know some high HP turbo drag guys use the temperature at the compressor outlet to determine if the backpressure is too high. But you need an IAT sensor that will read to like 400F or so.
Reminded of a quote from Corky Bells'Book re turbo systems ... "everything depends on everything else" |
Easier to tap a compressor housing than a manifold is my guess.
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Here is my latest dyno . Taking into consideration that this dyno reads conservatively (akin to a Mustang in the US) I think the results are pretty good . Best peak number I've made so far and far and away the best torque at 302lb/ft .
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...f04ef478db.jpg The difference between this and my earlier 411whp dyno is that the engine was comfortable at this power level . The dropoff of boost at the end of the run is due to where I set the wastegate to open. For anyone that doubts the effectiveness of virtual dyno (when used properly) check this actual dyno vs the VD on the previous page . Within 1% on both power and torque ! |
How are you judging the engines comfort level? Is it just back pressure? Is there any other signs like exhaust temp?
Can you run more boost or rpm? |
Originally Posted by rotarenvy
(Post 4854215)
How are you judging the engines comfort level? Is it just back pressure? Is there any other signs like exhaust temp?
Can you run more boost or rpm? Really didn't want to take it higher given the idicators . |
Thanks for sharing.
Those indicators sound like they indicate limitations in the turbine and plumbing? What about combustion pressure, how do you judge that? |
Originally Posted by rotarenvy
(Post 4854219)
Thanks for sharing.
Those indicators sound like they indicate limitations in the turbine and plumbing? What about combustion pressure, how do you judge that? Combustion pressure ....no idea .... |
Originally Posted by Brettus
(Post 4854221)
Combustion pressure ....no idea .... where you think the exhaust ports are overwhelmed rasing combustion pressure. I would like to know if you think you could run to 9k and higher boost without the backpressure of the turbine? |
Originally Posted by rotarenvy
(Post 4854226)
I suppose I'm getting back to your comments in this post https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...postcount=1339
where you think the exhaust ports are overwhelmed rasing combustion pressure. I would like to know if you think you could run to 9k and higher boost without the backpressure of the turbine? Short answer ...no . SC or turbo ...backpressure or not . I've changed my thinking a little since then - I think past a certain engine flow /chamber pressure - it's the siamese port sleeve that becomes the overriding issue, not the exhaust ports themselves. |
Originally Posted by Brettus
(Post 4854231)
Ah got ya now .
Short answer ...no . SC or turbo ...backpressure or not . I've changed my thinking a little since then - I think past a certain engine flow /chamber pressure - it's the siamese port sleeve that becomes the overriding issue, not the exhaust ports themselves. |
Originally Posted by rotarenvy
(Post 4854233)
but that flow rate would have be influenced by rpm, boost and backpressure and a whole lot of other related factors. Do you find a definate limiting point and how do you spot it?
As far as spotting it ... diminishing returns from boost , even though you think you have everything in place to minimise backpressure. |
Sorry if I've missed it( I haven't read all 63 pages)... What happens in the higher RPMS if you don't drop the wastegate duty cycle? Do you have the virtual dyno sheets of this?
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Originally Posted by shawnm565
(Post 4854293)
Sorry if I've missed it( I haven't read all 63 pages)... What happens in the higher RPMS if you don't drop the wastegate duty cycle?
Originally Posted by shawnm565
(Post 4854293)
Do you have the virtual dyno sheets of this?
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Congratulations Brett! 381hp at 13psi is a fantastic result, I'd say. It means that a boost that does not reduce life expectancy of engine drastically, can actually deliver very impressive numbers. On top of that torque is nice and flat, not just a big lump.
:bowdown: |
Originally Posted by AAaF
(Post 4854457)
Congratulations Brett! 381hp at 13psi is a fantastic result, I'd say. It means that a boost that does not reduce life expectancy of engine drastically, can actually deliver very impressive numbers. On top of that torque is nice and flat, not just a big lump.
:bowdown: Just did this comparison so you can see what I mean : Assuming the base for an NA engine is 190whp up to 14.3psi I get 14.6 whp for every psi of boost from 14.3 to 15.9psi I only get 7.5 whp for each additional psi . So the return from the extra boost is HALVED after 14.3psi ! BTW :we did another run at 14.3psi which netted 405whp |
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