Brettus Turbo install thread
03-30-2009, 09:00 PM
#359
U-Stink-But-I-♥-U
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What, are you using this as a ebc or something? I am assuming that you no longer use the vfad as god intended.
I just found this thread. Never seen it before. Well, it is only 9 pages....
I just found this thread. Never seen it before. Well, it is only 9 pages....
03-30-2009, 09:23 PM
#360
U-Stink-But-I-♥-U
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Been playing around with my boost controller . Trying to get a steady 10psi through to as high a rpm as i can . Have managed to make 9psi at 7000rpm (so I know the turbo will push enough air ) but this is at the expense of too much boost early on .
This brings a few problems as the huge rush of torque with more than 10psi as you mash the throttle makes the car too hard to control - not what I want at the track.
If I drop the 'gain ' value it is more subdued early on but the boost drops off later.
Have taken to setting the overboost limit down and trying to get the controller to knock the boost down early on which allows a higher 'gain' setting and higher boost later . Less than ideal.
I'm thinking this problem relates to the weak actuator spring and my atempt at overcoming this by winding the rod right in .
Any suggestions ?
This brings a few problems as the huge rush of torque with more than 10psi as you mash the throttle makes the car too hard to control - not what I want at the track.
If I drop the 'gain ' value it is more subdued early on but the boost drops off later.
Have taken to setting the overboost limit down and trying to get the controller to knock the boost down early on which allows a higher 'gain' setting and higher boost later . Less than ideal.
I'm thinking this problem relates to the weak actuator spring and my atempt at overcoming this by winding the rod right in .
Any suggestions ?
03-30-2009, 09:59 PM
#361
I actually had an RPM adjustable boost controller on my piggyback and was using that at one stage - but i got rid of it because I didn't like the complexity of having the piggyback do nothing but that .
Last edited by Brettus; 03-30-2009 at 10:02 PM.
03-30-2009, 10:24 PM
#362
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IDK. I am stumped.
BTW, this thread was a good read. Learned a lot and will consider all of your steps as I contemplate my tune.
I am impressed with how fast you turned the car around. It took me months to get to my car. I am starting to figure that I have too many hobbies. Need to focus on the priorities.
BTW, this thread was a good read. Learned a lot and will consider all of your steps as I contemplate my tune.
I am impressed with how fast you turned the car around. It took me months to get to my car. I am starting to figure that I have too many hobbies. Need to focus on the priorities.
03-30-2009, 10:36 PM
#363
last clue ....
The problem with the wastegate is that exhaust gases push it open at about the same time the aux port opens - so unless you have a boost controller that is rpm adjustable you just can't make decent boost . This is why it is hard to get any gains from the upgraded turbo unless you also upgrade the actuator.
With this mod i don't need an rpm based controller or an upgraded actuator ....
The problem with the wastegate is that exhaust gases push it open at about the same time the aux port opens - so unless you have a boost controller that is rpm adjustable you just can't make decent boost . This is why it is hard to get any gains from the upgraded turbo unless you also upgrade the actuator.
With this mod i don't need an rpm based controller or an upgraded actuator ....
Last edited by Brettus; 03-30-2009 at 10:40 PM.
03-30-2009, 11:11 PM
#365
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IIRC, the stock vfad is plumbed to the uim. In fact, I think the greddy kit makes use of exactly this nipple. THis nipple samples uim pressure, which on a stock RX8 is under vac at 7krpm plus. Your uim is now under boost at this speed (which makes me wonder how the brake master cylinder booster works on a boosted application. Never thought about this.) So if you plumb the vfad nippl to the wg you will have ambient until you close the vfad contact and open the plumbing to the intake. At this point you would be trying to close the wg with a force equal to actuator spring plus the manifold pressure times the actuator diaphram area.
But we already know this is insufficient to hold the wg closed.
On my ebc, the system holds boost on the actuator until you hit some preset. Then it bleeds to atm., opening the wg. At least, I think this is how it worked. Been a while. I can hit at least 8psi max, but it falls at higher rpm due to the wg opening prematurely.
I dont see how what I described would be different or better, so that must not be what your super secret mod is.
Did you plumb this to the aux port?
In the likely event that this is all incorrect, please answer the following 20 questions:
is your vfad plumbed to the uim?
are you running a bc at all?
what rpms are you opening the sdias valves?
My APV is set to be always open for some reason, according to my table
My VDI is set to open around 7200ish
My VFAD is ste to open at 5250.
But we already know this is insufficient to hold the wg closed.
On my ebc, the system holds boost on the actuator until you hit some preset. Then it bleeds to atm., opening the wg. At least, I think this is how it worked. Been a while. I can hit at least 8psi max, but it falls at higher rpm due to the wg opening prematurely.
I dont see how what I described would be different or better, so that must not be what your super secret mod is.
Did you plumb this to the aux port?
In the likely event that this is all incorrect, please answer the following 20 questions:
is your vfad plumbed to the uim?
are you running a bc at all?
what rpms are you opening the sdias valves?
My APV is set to be always open for some reason, according to my table
My VDI is set to open around 7200ish
My VFAD is ste to open at 5250.
03-30-2009, 11:41 PM
#368
hehe - I knew I would get someones' interest eventually ...
nope - who said anything about the vfad . I only mentioned the vfad solenoid which i'm useing for something completely different .
yes - greddy profec spec 2
APV 6600 - did a thread on why this rpm is best for FI application ....
VDI inoperative but signal is now controlling my rev buzzer
VFAD control set to ativate at 6800 but - it is now cotrolling my auxillary boost control solenoid which just happens to be the old VFAD solenoid .
nope - who said anything about the vfad . I only mentioned the vfad solenoid which i'm useing for something completely different .
yes - greddy profec spec 2
VDI inoperative but signal is now controlling my rev buzzer
VFAD control set to ativate at 6800 but - it is now cotrolling my auxillary boost control solenoid which just happens to be the old VFAD solenoid .
03-31-2009, 12:12 AM
#369
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Totally off subject, I have been worrying that my vac readings at idle have been high; around "-11psi". I dont have a boost gauge yet and have been just reading off of a profec E-01. Will the profec units read good vacuum? (I bought a boost guage but was not happy with the housing. Going another route.)
EDITED TO ADD: I am plumbed off the turbo outlet for my ebc.
APV 6600 - did a thread on why this rpm is best for FI application ....
VDI inoperative but signal is now controlling my rev buzzer
VFAD control set to ativate at 6800 but - it is now cotrolling my auxillary boost control solenoid which just happens to be the old VFAD solenoid .
VDI inoperative but signal is now controlling my rev buzzer
VFAD control set to ativate at 6800 but - it is now cotrolling my auxillary boost control solenoid which just happens to be the old VFAD solenoid .
AGAIN EDITED TO ADD: http://media.ford.com/pdf/rotary3_e.pdf This is interesting. I think some of our alphabet soup is off.
Why is VDI inoperative (to be honest, I cant imagine how that "H" valve helps even in NA applications. Must be some sort of resonance disruptor for some sort of Hemholtz phenominon.)
What is your aux boost controller (WARNING: NEW ABBREVIATION-ABC) controlling? And isnt this basicaly what I said in my first post?
Last edited by carbonRX8; 03-31-2009 at 01:01 AM.
03-31-2009, 01:09 AM
#370
Totally off subject, I have been worrying that my vac readings at idle have been high; around "-11psi". I dont have a boost gauge yet and have been just reading off of a profec E-01. Will the profec units read good vacuum? (I bought a boost guage but was not happy with the housing. Going another route.)
EDITED TO ADD: I am plumbed off the turbo outlet for my ebc.
My vac reading on the profec was - 15 to -16 so yours looks low . Perhaps a leak somewhere ?
I read that thread, however, my stock maps show have only one control for APV, and at any temps above freezing, the APV is open. There are no values of 4100 rpm that you quoted. I hesitate to fiddle with what I dont understand.
AGAIN EDITED TO ADD: http://media.ford.com/pdf/rotary3_e.pdf
AGAIN EDITED TO ADD: http://media.ford.com/pdf/rotary3_e.pdf
the 4100 figure you mentioned may have been a test i did - I didn't leave it there .
1st step boost controller
2nd step ABC - max boost possible (depends on actuator spring tension).
Last edited by Brettus; 03-31-2009 at 01:12 AM.
03-31-2009, 01:20 AM
#371
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Check out my post in the accesstuner thread.
DUDE! This is cool! Very impressed with the innovation. (And exactly what I was thinking, but could only poorly describe.) When I get more sorted, I am going to copy you!
07-28-2009, 12:30 AM
#375
Learned a valuable lesson today
I took my bumper off to fit a new bumper and decided to clean and oil my air filter .
Long story short - my afrs went to **** (lean 13.0-13.5 in boost ) . The car started bucking and I got that horrible marbles in a can (detonation) sound . Scared the crap out of me cuz when I got home my idle was **** which reminded me of my blown motor a while back .
The only thing I had done that could possibly caused this was oiling the filter - which I had assumed was a K&N type which needed oiling . WRONG !!!!!
I washed it out again - went for a drive and all was back to normal .
What surprised me was the fact that the restriction caused by the oil must have somehow thrown out the maf and caused the lean condition - that has me puzzled.
I took my bumper off to fit a new bumper and decided to clean and oil my air filter .
Long story short - my afrs went to **** (lean 13.0-13.5 in boost ) . The car started bucking and I got that horrible marbles in a can (detonation) sound . Scared the crap out of me cuz when I got home my idle was **** which reminded me of my blown motor a while back .
The only thing I had done that could possibly caused this was oiling the filter - which I had assumed was a K&N type which needed oiling . WRONG !!!!!
I washed it out again - went for a drive and all was back to normal .
What surprised me was the fact that the restriction caused by the oil must have somehow thrown out the maf and caused the lean condition - that has me puzzled.