Engine Dyno testing of Renesis
05-27-2006, 09:05 PM
#201
Hymee--
Good clean honest start. No where but up from here. Engine being a mystery of sorts(actually its the package I'm thinking) but I think maybe we(as a group) are concentrating too much on numbers. Stop thinking of numbers guys and start thinking of evolution(like some are SHOWING us). Sooner than some may think we are going to have the option to have a 300hp sub 3000lb car that is also a solid daily driver.
Dont ever forget we bought the car for the whole car not just for the horses.
I laugh everytime I pass one of the higher hp cars on the track.
olddraggeri
Good clean honest start. No where but up from here. Engine being a mystery of sorts(actually its the package I'm thinking) but I think maybe we(as a group) are concentrating too much on numbers. Stop thinking of numbers guys and start thinking of evolution(like some are SHOWING us). Sooner than some may think we are going to have the option to have a 300hp sub 3000lb car that is also a solid daily driver.
Dont ever forget we bought the car for the whole car not just for the horses.
I laugh everytime I pass one of the higher hp cars on the track.
olddraggeri
05-28-2006, 06:26 AM
#203
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Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
...
MBT is found around 12:1, so stoich just isn't gonna cut it.
MBT is found around 12:1, so stoich just isn't gonna cut it.
I'd be very reluctant to run that lean, and would opt for an AFR closer to what you quoted MM, although some engines do have a rather lean MBT, like the JDM Honda Civic-R engine for example.
Cheers,
Fabrice
05-29-2006, 12:11 AM
#205
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Running 13.4 on a N/A car is fine. Over in the turbo community we shoot for 12's but FI is quite diffrent as we all know. Worst case scenario you run water injection.\
I don't mean to kiss a^^ but thank you for going though all this trouble Hymee. And yes 14hp from headers is pretty darn good. Most cars you'll see 15hp with I/H/E.
WRX/DSM - RX-8 Apples - Oranges
Need more input!! More input Hymee!
I don't mean to kiss a^^ but thank you for going though all this trouble Hymee. And yes 14hp from headers is pretty darn good. Most cars you'll see 15hp with I/H/E.
WRX/DSM - RX-8 Apples - Oranges
Need more input!! More input Hymee!
Last edited by pianoman; 05-29-2006 at 12:15 AM.
05-29-2006, 07:14 AM
#206
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just to add some here, we dyno 2 rx-8 and my rx-7 the same day one rx-8 made 204rwhp ( 2005 JDM model) the other one made 192rwhp ( 2004 us spec model) same dyno about 30 minutes apart.
05-29-2006, 12:11 PM
#207
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so the stock run was without the CAT, too? so using the close guess of 222 - 6(if you put the cat on
) then that would be 216- a magical number for DMP. but then how to explain cars that dyno with whp of 200 or better. there surely is greater than 16 hp loss thru the drivetrain. figure at least 20 maybe even 26 for DMP
216ish with the CAT on + the best tune you could find? i bet there is at least another 10 hp in there that you havent found with your tune yet.
but- onwards and upwards , get that SC on there
) then that would be 216- a magical number for DMP. but then how to explain cars that dyno with whp of 200 or better. there surely is greater than 16 hp loss thru the drivetrain. figure at least 20 maybe even 26 for DMP216ish with the CAT on + the best tune you could find? i bet there is at least another 10 hp in there that you havent found with your tune yet.
but- onwards and upwards , get that SC on there
05-29-2006, 12:39 PM
#208
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Hymee,
I know nothing more then what I've read about , the testing and what not your performing on the motor. My question is pretty simple, how well is the test motor grounded and how many miles does it have on it?
Both are "suppose" to give more HP.
On the mazda3 forum they had a very long post going
http://www.mazda3forums.com/index.php?topic=28396.0
This guy claims he has dyno proven 10hp with the buddyclub grounding kit.
I know nothing more then what I've read about , the testing and what not your performing on the motor. My question is pretty simple, how well is the test motor grounded and how many miles does it have on it?
Both are "suppose" to give more HP.
On the mazda3 forum they had a very long post going
http://www.mazda3forums.com/index.php?topic=28396.0
This guy claims he has dyno proven 10hp with the buddyclub grounding kit.
05-30-2006, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by rotarygod
What's so scary about running a 13.4:1 afr? If it's not a turbo there's not an issue with it. Just don't use a cat.
.Maybe it comes from the fact I used to work for a car manufacturer that used to use plastic/cardboard alloys for exhaust components...
Fabrice
05-30-2006, 04:39 PM
#211
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Thanks Hymee,
Put this discussion to rest for a while at least. I have for a long long time been saying that this car is 215-225hp based on all inferential evidence. Im just glad it was 222 and not the 215 number... even if that is probably what my car puts out stock.
Put this discussion to rest for a while at least. I have for a long long time been saying that this car is 215-225hp based on all inferential evidence. Im just glad it was 222 and not the 215 number... even if that is probably what my car puts out stock.
05-31-2006, 12:45 PM
#212
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Apologies in Order
As I was rereading this thread, I realized my comments back in post #123 that the dyno numbers were "unimpressive" could be interpreted as a knock on the work Hymee had done on the extractors. What I meant to say was that even with a more optimized tune, the HP number was still well below Mazda's advertised HP level. So a factory tune would result in an even larger discrepancy. That (Mazda's inflated claim) is what I found unimpressive.
That Hymee extractors gained 14 HP *is* impressive given what RB and others have said about the potential for gains in the exhaust system.
So, humble apologies to Hymee. Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing your finding.
That Hymee extractors gained 14 HP *is* impressive given what RB and others have said about the potential for gains in the exhaust system.
So, humble apologies to Hymee. Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing your finding.
05-31-2006, 06:53 PM
#214
Originally Posted by Blue87Sport
As I was rereading this thread, I realized my comments back in post #123 that the dyno numbers were "unimpressive" could be interpreted as a knock on the work Hymee had done on the extractors. What I meant to say was that even with a more optimized tune, the HP number was still well below Mazda's advertised HP level. So a factory tune would result in an even larger discrepancy. That (Mazda's inflated claim) is what I found unimpressive.
That Hymee extractors gained 14 HP *is* impressive given what RB and others have said about the potential for gains in the exhaust system.
So, humble apologies to Hymee. Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing your finding.
That Hymee extractors gained 14 HP *is* impressive given what RB and others have said about the potential for gains in the exhaust system.
So, humble apologies to Hymee. Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing your finding.
06-03-2006, 03:56 AM
#215
Originally Posted by rotarygod
I know for a fact that a Renesis has hit 250 on an engine dyno in the U.S. also using a Motec so it's curious that there are such discrepancies between engines.
I believe the only true way to figure out the exact factory horsepower would be to dyno it exactly the way it came from factory on both types of dynos.
From what I've seen it seems most of the times there's a problem with horsepower rating it's related to NA applications.
I've seen so many racers and engine builders who claimed to be dyno tuned at 300 flywheel horsepower only manage 220 rwhp on a Dynojet dyno. Go figure?
The most powerfull 13b NA I've ever seen dynoed made just over 340 rwhp on a Mustang wheel dyno.
To me the most important part for dyno testing is to see differences.
Hymee is going about it the right way by trying different combinations to acheive a differnce or gain in power. He have allready establish his stock level and measured a performance gain with headers.
Hymee keep up the good work.
Last edited by crispeed; 06-03-2006 at 03:58 AM.
06-03-2006, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by crispeed
I have to agree with you on that figure. I've also seen a certain famous rx-8 racing team here in Florida back in the early days of development make about 210 to 215 rwhp on a Dynojet wheel dyno and that's with a stock motor and Motec ecu and that's also when Mazda claimed 250hp.
I believe the only true way to figure out the exact factory horsepower would be to dyno it exactly the way it came from factory on both types of dynos.
From what I've seen it seems most of the times there's a problem with horsepower rating it's related to NA applications.
I've seen so many racers and engine builders who claimed to be dyno tuned at 300 flywheel horsepower only manage 220 rwhp on a Dynojet dyno. Go figure?
The most powerfull 13b NA I've ever seen dynoed made just over 340 rwhp on a Mustang wheel dyno.
To me the most important part for dyno testing is to see differences.
Hymee is going about it the right way by trying different combinations to acheive a differnce or gain in power. He have allready establish his stock level and measured a performance gain with headers.
Hymee keep up the good work.
I believe the only true way to figure out the exact factory horsepower would be to dyno it exactly the way it came from factory on both types of dynos.
From what I've seen it seems most of the times there's a problem with horsepower rating it's related to NA applications.
I've seen so many racers and engine builders who claimed to be dyno tuned at 300 flywheel horsepower only manage 220 rwhp on a Dynojet dyno. Go figure?
The most powerfull 13b NA I've ever seen dynoed made just over 340 rwhp on a Mustang wheel dyno.
To me the most important part for dyno testing is to see differences.
Hymee is going about it the right way by trying different combinations to acheive a differnce or gain in power. He have allready establish his stock level and measured a performance gain with headers.
Hymee keep up the good work.
06-11-2006, 02:16 PM
#220
To further back up the low HP claim, Knights Sport also dynoed 212 PS
●Knight Sports Supercharged RX-8
Mazda had no idea the RX-8 would have been so well accepted in the sports car world. In fact it was never even supposed to be a sporty car, but rather a unique family car that was also a fun drive. But in Japan tuners have been at it for years now trying to make this, the only rotary production car in the world, go a bit faster. Handling has never been an issue with the RX-8. It's considerably light, and thanks to the tiny Renesis being tucked almost under the dash (!) it makes the "8" behave like the best FR cars out there. However, what has proven to be a problem, is getting more power out of the 250PS twin rotor unit. The fact is this wankel is highly tuned as it is and as many people have found out, change one of the main variables like intake resistance or exhaust back-pressure, and you are more likely to loose power than gain anything significant! So this is where rotary masters Knight Sports come in. They have come up with a supercharger kit to considerably boost power and torque and give the RX-8 the extra horses it so desperatly needs.
This kit, which only operates at 0.5 bar, is enough to boost power to a very respectable 292.6 PS. Knight Sports also measured the power of the standard car before fitting the kit and found that it only developed 212.6 PS! It's a known fact Mazda were a bit optimistic when saying their high-spec RX-8 pushed out 250 PS. Anyway you can't argue with an 80 PS gain, and the best thing is the kit is bolt on, comes with everything you need including a small intercooler, and there is no danger of damaging the engine. The kit retails at ¥630,000 and is available right now. Please note that the piping and intercooler end tanks in the production version of the kit are polished unlike the items fitted to the demo/development car.
Mazda had no idea the RX-8 would have been so well accepted in the sports car world. In fact it was never even supposed to be a sporty car, but rather a unique family car that was also a fun drive. But in Japan tuners have been at it for years now trying to make this, the only rotary production car in the world, go a bit faster. Handling has never been an issue with the RX-8. It's considerably light, and thanks to the tiny Renesis being tucked almost under the dash (!) it makes the "8" behave like the best FR cars out there. However, what has proven to be a problem, is getting more power out of the 250PS twin rotor unit. The fact is this wankel is highly tuned as it is and as many people have found out, change one of the main variables like intake resistance or exhaust back-pressure, and you are more likely to loose power than gain anything significant! So this is where rotary masters Knight Sports come in. They have come up with a supercharger kit to considerably boost power and torque and give the RX-8 the extra horses it so desperatly needs.
This kit, which only operates at 0.5 bar, is enough to boost power to a very respectable 292.6 PS. Knight Sports also measured the power of the standard car before fitting the kit and found that it only developed 212.6 PS! It's a known fact Mazda were a bit optimistic when saying their high-spec RX-8 pushed out 250 PS. Anyway you can't argue with an 80 PS gain, and the best thing is the kit is bolt on, comes with everything you need including a small intercooler, and there is no danger of damaging the engine. The kit retails at ¥630,000 and is available right now. Please note that the piping and intercooler end tanks in the production version of the kit are polished unlike the items fitted to the demo/development car.
06-11-2006, 03:25 PM
#221
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Originally Posted by Nemesis8
To further back up the low HP claim, Knights Sport also dynoed 212 PS
06-13-2006, 09:26 AM
#223
RX8 and a Truk....
Originally Posted by zoom44
so the stock run was without the CAT, too? so using the close guess of 222 - 6(if you put the cat on) then that would be 216- a magical number for DMP. but then how to explain cars that dyno with whp of 200 or better. there surely is greater than 16 hp loss thru the drivetrain. figure at least 20 maybe even 26 for DMP
216ish with the CAT on + the best tune you could find? i bet there is at least another 10 hp in there that you havent found with your tune yet.
but- onwards and upwards , get that SC on there
) then that would be 216- a magical number for DMP. but then how to explain cars that dyno with whp of 200 or better. there surely is greater than 16 hp loss thru the drivetrain. figure at least 20 maybe even 26 for DMP216ish with the CAT on + the best tune you could find? i bet there is at least another 10 hp in there that you havent found with your tune yet.
but- onwards and upwards , get that SC on there
06-13-2006, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Nemesis8
Yep, that's to the wheels.
I wouldn't be dissapointed if I got 212.5 WHP from a 250 FWHP car. It would mean less than 40 horses went through the tranny.
I believe japanese dynos estimante Flywheel Hp, just as europeans do.