Esmeril Racing Turbo Kit
04-26-2009 | 01:58 PM
#76
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Central Europe
04-27-2009 | 10:31 AM
#78
I have to make some correction on the price of the interceptor here.....the price above is discount price that I got when I ordered the turbo last Jan when there was a sale going on. Contact mazdaparts.com if you want to know what the current price is.
04-27-2009 | 12:25 PM
#79
Registered
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 654
Likes: 4
Normally I totally agree with what you are talking about when it comes to turbo talk, but your comments in this thread are laughable. I'm sorry but I don't see a downside to the thought of potentially trying to open the kit up to a readily available (not developed by a now defunct company) EMS like the Access Port that seems to be a relatively popular in the community. I'm not saying they will or they should, I'm saying now the potential to make a pass-through system is there.
Also, I imagine that if someone is dumb enough to not follow the directions of installing anything on their 8 without the proper experience, they are most likely going to have problems and will be unhappy with their product. This is no ones fault by their own, I don't even see why you would bother bringing this issue up as a reason against researching an alternate approach to do something.
Also, I imagine that if someone is dumb enough to not follow the directions of installing anything on their 8 without the proper experience, they are most likely going to have problems and will be unhappy with their product. This is no ones fault by their own, I don't even see why you would bother bringing this issue up as a reason against researching an alternate approach to do something.
I was presenting the hurdles from a business owner's perspective more than anything else. I was not saying that it will never work, or that they shouldn't at least look into it. But to market full AP compatibility would potentially require a lot of development time and a followup service (looking over people's fuel trims etc) like what MM offers, or possibly outsourcing to MM or another AP vendor. That might work great, or it might not. Who am I to say, I don't have enough information.
All the service required for AP compatibility is a tough route to go down if you are not set up to do it, if it's not part of your business model. You risk running yourself ragged servicing existing customers having AP problems instead of developing new products or working on cars in the shop. And you can't say "oh well I'll have to charge you x fee to look at your AP logs and see if your tune is fine" to cover the costs, because people will probably raise hell and say "I already gave you x dollars and you won't even support your product!!" Or if something goes wrong you spend a lot of time defending your shop against internet rumors. I know the owners of one of local tuner shops in town and he has these types of problems all the time. And how could Esmeril calculate the revenue potential from AP compatibility? "Gauging interest" threads are not dependable enough.
You could argue that if people want to make the higher power output of the Esmeril kit, they'll just get whatever they have to get to make it work anyway. Like I said, I would love to see Esmeril do it for the benefit of the community. Yet if they look at all the factors and start planning a couple years down the line, it may not be the best choice for the financial health of their shop. AP Compatibility would only pay off if the development time is short, the technical issues are in fact minor, and customers wouldn't need much unprofitable followup service.
Last edited by arghx7; 04-27-2009 at 12:37 PM.
04-27-2009 | 12:34 PM
#80
Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. There is a potential for AP compatibility, and I would like to see that potential explored as a rotary enthusiast.
I was presenting the hurdles from a business owner's perspective more than anything else. I was not saying that it will never work, or that they shouldn't at least look into it. But to market full AP compatibility would potentially require a lot of development time and a followup service (looking over people's fuel trims etc) like what MM offers, or possibly outsourcing to MM or another AP vendor. That might work great, or it might not. Who am I to say, I don't have enough information.
All the service required for AP compatibility is a tough route to go down if you are not set up to do it, if it's not part of your business model. You risk running yourself ragged servicing existing customers having AP problems instead of developing new products or working on cars in the shop. And you can't say "oh well I'll have to charge you x fee to look at your AP logs and see if your tune is fine" to cover the costs, because people will probably raise hell and say "I already gave you x dollars and you won't even support your product!!" Or if something goes wrong you spend a lot of time defending your shop against internet rumors. I know the owners of one of local tuner shops in town and he has these types of problems all the time. And how could Esmeril calculate the revenue potential from AP compatibility? "Gauging interest" threads are not dependable enough.
You could argue that if people want to make the higher power output of the Esmeril kit, they'll just get whatever they have to get to make it work anyway. Like I said, I would love to see Esmeril do it for the benefit of the community. Yet if they look at all the factors and start planning a couple years down the line, it may not be the best choice for the financial health of their shop. AP Compatibility would only pay off if the development time is short, the technical issues are in fact minor, and customers wouldn't need much unprofitable followup service.
I was presenting the hurdles from a business owner's perspective more than anything else. I was not saying that it will never work, or that they shouldn't at least look into it. But to market full AP compatibility would potentially require a lot of development time and a followup service (looking over people's fuel trims etc) like what MM offers, or possibly outsourcing to MM or another AP vendor. That might work great, or it might not. Who am I to say, I don't have enough information.
All the service required for AP compatibility is a tough route to go down if you are not set up to do it, if it's not part of your business model. You risk running yourself ragged servicing existing customers having AP problems instead of developing new products or working on cars in the shop. And you can't say "oh well I'll have to charge you x fee to look at your AP logs and see if your tune is fine" to cover the costs, because people will probably raise hell and say "I already gave you x dollars and you won't even support your product!!" Or if something goes wrong you spend a lot of time defending your shop against internet rumors. I know the owners of one of local tuner shops in town and he has these types of problems all the time. And how could Esmeril calculate the revenue potential from AP compatibility? "Gauging interest" threads are not dependable enough.
You could argue that if people want to make the higher power output of the Esmeril kit, they'll just get whatever they have to get to make it work anyway. Like I said, I would love to see Esmeril do it for the benefit of the community. Yet if they look at all the factors and start planning a couple years down the line, it may not be the best choice for the financial health of their shop. AP Compatibility would only pay off if the development time is short, the technical issues are in fact minor, and customers wouldn't need much unprofitable followup service.
04-28-2009 | 10:43 AM
#81
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Central Europe
I think that this post is very valuable information for everyone who is into buying Esmeril Racing turbo kit ...
We better take some steps forward, so the name and price of the new turbo is?
We better take some steps forward, so the name and price of the new turbo is?
04-28-2009 | 05:59 PM
#82
Best regards,
Chris
04-28-2009 | 11:18 PM
#83
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Atlanta, GA
350HP Esmeril Daily Driver Setup?!?
Dear Forum:
At the risk of being bashed for asking a question (as it wouldn't be the first time, "search danielson search") sometimes it is easier to ask my specific question and get a targeted answer, so here goes:
I have a '04 6-Speed 8 with roughly 70k on her. It has a Greddy SP2 exhaust, K&N (Factory replacement) Air filter, Redline fluids (tranny & diff), and a really bad *** sticker (good for 5+ hp) I just recently upgraded the ignition system with new plugs, 10mm wires, and 4 factory replacement coils. She runs strong and hard. I realize that if/when I do any FI installs, especially the Esmeril kit, which is what I want, I will need to install their ignition upgrade as well. I have been reading about the 414hp car, watched the clip, came twice, and now finally posting this question . I realize my car has relatively high miles for such a major upgrade; however, it is running strong as can be. Now, I do not desire to have a 1.3 engine output over 400 horses! It is absolutely AWESOME that it CAN be done; however, I would feel as though I would be playing with fire at this juncture to even attempt to get there "safely." With that being said; however, would 350-375 be out of the question to accomplish safely? I have installed a turbo kit before on my old 98 civic, but did not get the gains I was expecting because it didn't come with all the bells & whistles like fuel system and EMS, etc.. The Esmeril kit sounds 100% complete, minus an EMS. I have read that the majority of owners seem to prefer the COBB programmer to simply reprogram and use your existing computer, which sounds much simpler.
Sorry to keep rambling, but I guess my question boils down to this: If I had, say, "roughly" $5-7k to spend on a turbo setup (TOTAL, including tuning, EMS (if needed), etc) could I purchase the Esmeril kit and "relatively safely" achieve 350-375 HP on my daily driver?
Any advice related to this would be greatly appreciated!
It scares me to hear people talk about how "brittle" the factory Apex's are, so just the thought of FI makes me shiver.. lol. I came from the Buick Grand National turbo days where you could bang the **** outta that 3.8 and it would still run low 13's lol Good 'ole family sedan that was the Corvette killer! "Good 'ole days"
Thanks again,
Matt
At the risk of being bashed for asking a question (as it wouldn't be the first time, "search danielson search") sometimes it is easier to ask my specific question and get a targeted answer, so here goes:
I have a '04 6-Speed 8 with roughly 70k on her. It has a Greddy SP2 exhaust, K&N (Factory replacement) Air filter, Redline fluids (tranny & diff), and a really bad *** sticker
(good for 5+ hp) I just recently upgraded the ignition system with new plugs, 10mm wires, and 4 factory replacement coils. She runs strong and hard. I realize that if/when I do any FI installs, especially the Esmeril kit, which is what I want, I will need to install their ignition upgrade as well. I have been reading about the 414hp car, watched the clip, came twice, and now finally posting this question . I realize my car has relatively high miles for such a major upgrade; however, it is running strong as can be. Now, I do not desire to have a 1.3 engine output over 400 horses! It is absolutely AWESOME that it CAN be done; however, I would feel as though I would be playing with fire at this juncture to even attempt to get there "safely." With that being said; however, would 350-375 be out of the question to accomplish safely? I have installed a turbo kit before on my old 98 civic, but did not get the gains I was expecting because it didn't come with all the bells & whistles like fuel system and EMS, etc.. The Esmeril kit sounds 100% complete, minus an EMS. I have read that the majority of owners seem to prefer the COBB programmer to simply reprogram and use your existing computer, which sounds much simpler. Sorry to keep rambling, but I guess my question boils down to this: If I had, say, "roughly" $5-7k to spend on a turbo setup (TOTAL, including tuning, EMS (if needed), etc) could I purchase the Esmeril kit and "relatively safely" achieve 350-375 HP on my daily driver?
Any advice related to this would be greatly appreciated!
It scares me to hear people talk about how "brittle" the factory Apex's are, so just the thought of FI makes me shiver.. lol. I came from the Buick Grand National turbo days where you could bang the **** outta that 3.8 and it would still run low 13's lol
Good 'ole family sedan that was the Corvette killer! "Good 'ole days"Thanks again,
Matt
Last edited by MisterZJ; 04-28-2009 at 11:20 PM.
04-29-2009 | 12:56 AM
#85
1st RX8 BNR Turbo Owner..
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 454
Likes: 2
From: San Antonio, Texas
Dear Forum:
At the risk of being bashed for asking a question (as it wouldn't be the first time, "search danielson search") sometimes it is easier to ask my specific question and get a targeted answer, so here goes:
I have a '04 6-Speed 8 with roughly 70k on her. It has a Greddy SP2 exhaust, K&N (Factory replacement) Air filter, Redline fluids (tranny & diff), and a really bad *** sticker (good for 5+ hp) I just recently upgraded the ignition system with new plugs, 10mm wires, and 4 factory replacement coils. She runs strong and hard. I realize that if/when I do any FI installs, especially the Esmeril kit, which is what I want, I will need to install their ignition upgrade as well. I have been reading about the 414hp car, watched the clip, came twice, and now finally posting this question . I realize my car has relatively high miles for such a major upgrade; however, it is running strong as can be. Now, I do not desire to have a 1.3 engine output over 400 horses! It is absolutely AWESOME that it CAN be done; however, I would feel as though I would be playing with fire at this juncture to even attempt to get there "safely." With that being said; however, would 350-375 be out of the question to accomplish safely? I have installed a turbo kit before on my old 98 civic, but did not get the gains I was expecting because it didn't come with all the bells & whistles like fuel system and EMS, etc.. The Esmeril kit sounds 100% complete, minus an EMS. I have read that the majority of owners seem to prefer the COBB programmer to simply reprogram and use your existing computer, which sounds much simpler.
Sorry to keep rambling, but I guess my question boils down to this: If I had, say, "roughly" $5-7k to spend on a turbo setup (TOTAL, including tuning, EMS (if needed), etc) could I purchase the Esmeril kit and "relatively safely" achieve 350-375 HP on my daily driver?
Any advice related to this would be greatly appreciated!
It scares me to hear people talk about how "brittle" the factory Apex's are, so just the thought of FI makes me shiver.. lol. I came from the Buick Grand National turbo days where you could bang the **** outta that 3.8 and it would still run low 13's lol Good 'ole family sedan that was the Corvette killer! "Good 'ole days"
Thanks again,
Matt
At the risk of being bashed for asking a question (as it wouldn't be the first time, "search danielson search") sometimes it is easier to ask my specific question and get a targeted answer, so here goes:
I have a '04 6-Speed 8 with roughly 70k on her. It has a Greddy SP2 exhaust, K&N (Factory replacement) Air filter, Redline fluids (tranny & diff), and a really bad *** sticker
(good for 5+ hp) I just recently upgraded the ignition system with new plugs, 10mm wires, and 4 factory replacement coils. She runs strong and hard. I realize that if/when I do any FI installs, especially the Esmeril kit, which is what I want, I will need to install their ignition upgrade as well. I have been reading about the 414hp car, watched the clip, came twice, and now finally posting this question . I realize my car has relatively high miles for such a major upgrade; however, it is running strong as can be. Now, I do not desire to have a 1.3 engine output over 400 horses! It is absolutely AWESOME that it CAN be done; however, I would feel as though I would be playing with fire at this juncture to even attempt to get there "safely." With that being said; however, would 350-375 be out of the question to accomplish safely? I have installed a turbo kit before on my old 98 civic, but did not get the gains I was expecting because it didn't come with all the bells & whistles like fuel system and EMS, etc.. The Esmeril kit sounds 100% complete, minus an EMS. I have read that the majority of owners seem to prefer the COBB programmer to simply reprogram and use your existing computer, which sounds much simpler. Sorry to keep rambling, but I guess my question boils down to this: If I had, say, "roughly" $5-7k to spend on a turbo setup (TOTAL, including tuning, EMS (if needed), etc) could I purchase the Esmeril kit and "relatively safely" achieve 350-375 HP on my daily driver?
Any advice related to this would be greatly appreciated!
It scares me to hear people talk about how "brittle" the factory Apex's are, so just the thought of FI makes me shiver.. lol. I came from the Buick Grand National turbo days where you could bang the **** outta that 3.8 and it would still run low 13's lol
Good 'ole family sedan that was the Corvette killer! "Good 'ole days"Thanks again,
Matt
04-29-2009 | 08:43 AM
#86
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Atlanta, GA
Thanks for the info! I know there must be several things that must be done in conjunction with the kit, such as colder plugs, tuning, etc.. I really don't want to have to add the water/meth kit if at all possible, and if that is the case (required) to reach that kind of HP, perhaps I could settle for 325-350? I think my goal is to get the Esmeril kit (hope the Turbo holds up), get their ignition upgrade, change the plugs to the required colder plugs, get the COBB tuning device and probably take it somewhere and have it professionally tuned since the apex's appear to be so "brittle" I don't want to blow her up, rather run rich than blow it up. Ya know.
Thanks again,
Matt
Thanks again,
Matt
04-29-2009 | 10:29 AM
#87
Thanks for the info! I know there must be several things that must be done in conjunction with the kit, such as colder plugs, tuning, etc.. I really don't want to have to add the water/meth kit if at all possible, and if that is the case (required) to reach that kind of HP, perhaps I could settle for 325-350? I think my goal is to get the Esmeril kit (hope the Turbo holds up), get their ignition upgrade, change the plugs to the required colder plugs, get the COBB tuning device and probably take it somewhere and have it professionally tuned since the apex's appear to be so "brittle" I don't want to blow her up, rather run rich than blow it up. Ya know.
Thanks again,
Matt
Thanks again,
Matt
For 360whp and under we just keep the stock spark plugs and although we offer a colder option we don't recommend these until you upgrade your ignition with our ignition upgrade.
Also, going FI isn't going to make your engine wear out faster. Think about it, reasons for the engine to wear out faster are higher than normal rpm, or more sustained high rpm operation. FI does neither of these, in fact FI will probably keep you from having to rev the engine to redline as much because you will have way more power through out the powerband and you will not need to wring it out to pass someone on the highway for example. You will just step on the car without down shifting and make your pass without any drama. Your apex seals will not slide across the housing any faster because of FI, neither will your side seals or engine bearings so the usual speculation that going FI will wear your engine faster is a fallacy. Your engine will wear out faster because you are always at 9krpm than because you have a turbo or not.
Where FI can make your engine last less is if you detonate/pre-ignite and cause catastrophic failure which has nothing to do with engine wear. This happens due to lack of proper fuel for the boost you are running or too much ignition advance at a given point. Our kit includes the necessary fuel so if tuned properly that shouldn't be an issue. And we will flash a base map on your Int-X that has the timing map already preset so you will not have to touch it so as long as you stay with premium gas you will not have issues.
Best regards,
Chirs
04-29-2009 | 10:39 AM
#88
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Atlanta, GA
Chris,
I was hoping you would catch this thread, as you seem to be the turbo 8 guru!
Thank you for all your valuable info.
I do have the Greddy Sp2 exhaust, cat-back of course. I will consider a cat-delete; however, in Atlanta, GA, you have to pass emissions. *** HOLES Perhaps I can pass, get my tag, then change it lol. What about o2 sensors? CEL Lights? (I HATE CEL LIGHTS) lol. And, your kit, right out of the box, if I live in GA, which summers are in the 90's and winters vary between 30-50 degrees, would the pre-installed/configured setup work without any "professional tuning" perhaps? If it needs it, I will get it done, plain & simple, because I don't want to destroy my engine. BUT, i'm sure that would be an extra, rather large expense. Do you know of anyone in the southeast that could help with this for a reasonable cost?
I would LOVE to run 350 hp all day, everyday on my car.
Thanks,
Matt
I was hoping you would catch this thread, as you seem to be the turbo 8 guru!
Thank you for all your valuable info.
I do have the Greddy Sp2 exhaust, cat-back of course. I will consider a cat-delete; however, in Atlanta, GA, you have to pass emissions. *** HOLES
Perhaps I can pass, get my tag, then change it lol. What about o2 sensors? CEL Lights? (I HATE CEL LIGHTS) lol. And, your kit, right out of the box, if I live in GA, which summers are in the 90's and winters vary between 30-50 degrees, would the pre-installed/configured setup work without any "professional tuning" perhaps? If it needs it, I will get it done, plain & simple, because I don't want to destroy my engine. BUT, i'm sure that would be an extra, rather large expense. Do you know of anyone in the southeast that could help with this for a reasonable cost?I would LOVE to run 350 hp all day, everyday on my car.
Thanks,
Matt
04-29-2009 | 02:20 PM
#89
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Central Europe
As you read this thread, you see, that you should do only with the Esmeril Racing turbo kit, ER ignition upgrade and better clutch ... ER tested this for every day use, so it should work ...
This makes another question, what is ER recomended clutch to use with turbo kit???
This makes another question, what is ER recomended clutch to use with turbo kit???
04-29-2009 | 03:42 PM
#91
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Atlanta, GA
Better clutch? hmm.. Because of the miles on my car or because of the HP increase? I was under the impression that most of the FI cars on this forum say their stock clutch/gearbox was sufficient, if you didn't go around burning out at every light?
Am I mistaken?
Thanks,
Matt
Am I mistaken?
Thanks,
Matt
04-29-2009 | 04:02 PM
#92
Better clutch? hmm.. Because of the miles on my car or because of the HP increase? I was under the impression that most of the FI cars on this forum say their stock clutch/gearbox was sufficient, if you didn't go around burning out at every light?
Am I mistaken?
Thanks,
Matt
Am I mistaken?
Thanks,
Matt
Chris
04-29-2009 | 06:17 PM
#94
1st RX8 BNR Turbo Owner..
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 454
Likes: 2
From: San Antonio, Texas
The clutch is more of a safety than a necessity and it has a lot to do with how you drive. I drove the stock clutch to 350whp levels without issues. I babied it though. Don't expect the stock clutch to handle 350whp at the dragstrip because when you do the burnout and it heats up and then you let it out in the hole shot it will slip if it grips, it might grip down the line but it might just go blank and slip the whole way. On the street, the stock one is fine if you don't abuse it.
Chris
Chris
04-30-2009 | 09:40 AM
#95
What do you suggest/prefer?
Best regards,
Chris
05-01-2009 | 06:13 AM
#96
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Central Europe
Definitely yes
And if its possilbe, be more specific, something like a small list of clutches that will work nice with the kit is wellcome...
The main meaning of my question was like: exactly what types of cluth to use with turbo kit that everything will work just fine so you can forget about clutch
And if its possilbe, be more specific, something like a small list of clutches that will work nice with the kit is wellcome...
The main meaning of my question was like: exactly what types of cluth to use with turbo kit that everything will work just fine so you can forget about clutch
05-01-2009 | 09:39 AM
#97
....just kidding.Normally our standard kit will get to 400whp with about 290-310wtq depending on the tuning and the ignition. For 340-360whp you will see wtq figures around 260.
My set up has measured up to 370-375wtq so far. If you calculate drivetrain losses of about 17% you can have an idea of what the tq is at the engine.
Hope this helps...I am interested in knowing also, I get lots of questions about clutches and if you have something that you know works I wouldn't mind pointing them in your direction.
Best regards,
Chris
05-12-2009 | 09:37 AM
#100
Quick update...
Here is how its coming along. Only a few hoses need to be routed for the new FPR location, finish the battery relocation to the trunk and complete the vacuum manifold install. After that its just a little wiring for the air/water intercooler stuff and a new oil spout that I fabricated must be installed. We are thinking it should run in 2-3 weeks with our busy schedule....
Please excuse the blurry/dark pics...I will take better ones soon.
Best regards,
Chris
Please excuse the blurry/dark pics...I will take better ones soon.
Best regards,
Chris