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Fi!!!!
10-16-2007, 07:40 AM
#51
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Yes... I 2nd Phil's "Feelings"!
Many times over the TC Vs. SC battle has been waged and now that the SC has become a more viable and street able product it has, at times, gotten even hotter with the debates and arguments.
My opinion is that, not unlike the different personalities here, the variety of FI units, may or may not suit your budget, desire, ego, pride, skill level, comfort, trust, knowledge and/or style.
I will also go on to say... that the whole truck thing, it seems to me, was just what Phil was using to reference his preference for the SC over the the TC. He was backing his "decision / preference" by falling back on his personal fleet of vehicles with the different "types" of units on them. It just so happened that they were trucks.
Lastly, the SC's are still quite new on the market and as of yet there is no data the prove they are causing any more damage to the motor than any other FI application. Several prototyped SC 8's are still running strong and were taken apart to visit the ware with surprisingly good results! It should also be noted that these motors ran with premix and 20-50 oil. Both I am sure contribute to the lack of signs of extreme ware from the SC system.
Needless to say... there is an application out there for everyone. It is possible to have any FI kill your car, it is also possible to have stellar results from anyone of them also. Nitrous, TC, SC... Budget, Maintenance and Preference is what I guess it all boils down to.
Many times over the TC Vs. SC battle has been waged and now that the SC has become a more viable and street able product it has, at times, gotten even hotter with the debates and arguments.
My opinion is that, not unlike the different personalities here, the variety of FI units, may or may not suit your budget, desire, ego, pride, skill level, comfort, trust, knowledge and/or style.
I will also go on to say... that the whole truck thing, it seems to me, was just what Phil was using to reference his preference for the SC over the the TC. He was backing his "decision / preference" by falling back on his personal fleet of vehicles with the different "types" of units on them. It just so happened that they were trucks.
Lastly, the SC's are still quite new on the market and as of yet there is no data the prove they are causing any more damage to the motor than any other FI application. Several prototyped SC 8's are still running strong and were taken apart to visit the ware with surprisingly good results! It should also be noted that these motors ran with premix and 20-50 oil. Both I am sure contribute to the lack of signs of extreme ware from the SC system.
Needless to say... there is an application out there for everyone. It is possible to have any FI kill your car, it is also possible to have stellar results from anyone of them also. Nitrous, TC, SC... Budget, Maintenance and Preference is what I guess it all boils down to.
10-16-2007, 08:36 AM
#52
A SC isn't going to wear out the engine any more than a turbo will. Both just pump air into the engine. The SC has an extra load on the engine as it has to spin belts and the SC directly - but that's not going to impact the engine much in the long run. We're talking about low boost applications here.
10-16-2007, 10:57 PM
#54
10-17-2007, 09:58 AM
#55
Dongbag extrordinare
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Ask and ye shall receive:
However, I am going to go with mysql101's initial response: yes.
However, I am going to go with mysql101's initial response: yes.
10-17-2007, 01:46 PM
#58
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10-17-2007, 05:05 PM
#59
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Phil, turbos are prone to fail cause they operate in high temp environment, it is really important to cool them down before shutting off the engine, especially in a diesel ap. That plus oil changes -or lack thereof- and the fact you got commercial drivers driving them is plenty reason to have high maintenance bills. The turbos on Cummins are notorious for needing replacement after 50k. They are easily available in the remanu market and are cheap, so not a big deal. An EGT pyrometer is essential for longevity, I don't shut mine down until it drops below 450. In diesel aps the turbo is king of torque, mine does well over 750 ft-lb with the Juice. The Toyota TRD s/c is probably the most reliable FI application out there but then you are talking Toyota and that indestructible V6 that can probably run 100k on one oil change.
The s/c for a rotary maybe is not as "elegant" as a turbo but at the end of the day is probably going to be more durable and easier on your wallet, just change oil and check belts kind of thing.
A question I have: is an s/c less affected by fluctuations in octane than a turbo? We have a really hard time in this town finding decent gas.
The s/c for a rotary maybe is not as "elegant" as a turbo but at the end of the day is probably going to be more durable and easier on your wallet, just change oil and check belts kind of thing.
A question I have: is an s/c less affected by fluctuations in octane than a turbo? We have a really hard time in this town finding decent gas.
10-17-2007, 06:20 PM
#61
Phil, turbos are prone to fail cause they operate in high temp environment, it is really important to cool them down before shutting off the engine, especially in a diesel ap. That plus oil changes -or lack thereof- and the fact you got commercial drivers driving them is plenty reason to have high maintenance bills. The turbos on Cummins are notorious for needing replacement after 50k. They are easily available in the remanu market and are cheap, so not a big deal. An EGT pyrometer is essential for longevity, I don't shut mine down until it drops below 450. In diesel aps the turbo is king of torque, mine does well over 750 ft-lb with the Juice. The Toyota TRD s/c is probably the most reliable FI application out there but then you are talking Toyota and that indestructible V6 that can probably run 100k on one oil change.
The s/c for a rotary maybe is not as "elegant" as a turbo but at the end of the day is probably going to be more durable and easier on your wallet, just change oil and check belts kind of thing.
A question I have: is an s/c less affected by fluctuations in octane than a turbo? We have a really hard time in this town finding decent gas.
The s/c for a rotary maybe is not as "elegant" as a turbo but at the end of the day is probably going to be more durable and easier on your wallet, just change oil and check belts kind of thing.
A question I have: is an s/c less affected by fluctuations in octane than a turbo? We have a really hard time in this town finding decent gas.
10-18-2007, 09:23 AM
#64
I don't know for sure but it is my understanding that it is a public offering as a TRD option. Toyota National Sales asked us to consider using their trucks in our business. They sent out someone who did a survey of needs and we ended up with them equipped as they are, at a preset price. Too bad that they are so light as they are a very good truck.
10-18-2007, 11:45 AM
#65
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Phil i wasnt being ignorant and telling me im talking out of my *** is childish. when i posted i was doing so on the first page and missed the entire 2nd and 3rd page. i didnt no the thread had came this far so i missed alot of what you guys were talking about.
when i said cars and trucks i did mean the rotary so i apologize for that. but i stand by my point that a sc on a truck will behave different than a sc on a car. turbos the same. your pulley is set to cerain psi. turbos are variable and can be turned down to lessen the stress on the engine. sure you can swap pullies on the sc but not like you can adjust the boost on a turbo. thats the reason i said a sc will cause more damage over the life of the engine. unless you run at high boost all the time with a turbo. theres many different kinds of truck engines and i bet you dont have the same engine turbod and sced in all your different kinds of trucks so whose to say that the turbo is reason they are breaking? it could be the design of the two engines "which are totaly different" who knows. but its completely unfair to even begin to start to make a decsion on what is good for your rx8 based on all the different varaibles on your work trucks.... if you want to start name calling please do it with someone else. i was being polite. if you cant understand what im trying to tell you or you have a rebutle than thats cool. but no need for the remarks you made. i understand you may not like someone telling you something you may not want to hear. specialy when it comes to something like the decison you made on what type of fi to get on your car. but be cool about it
R.
when i said cars and trucks i did mean the rotary so i apologize for that. but i stand by my point that a sc on a truck will behave different than a sc on a car. turbos the same. your pulley is set to cerain psi. turbos are variable and can be turned down to lessen the stress on the engine. sure you can swap pullies on the sc but not like you can adjust the boost on a turbo. thats the reason i said a sc will cause more damage over the life of the engine. unless you run at high boost all the time with a turbo. theres many different kinds of truck engines and i bet you dont have the same engine turbod and sced in all your different kinds of trucks so whose to say that the turbo is reason they are breaking? it could be the design of the two engines "which are totaly different" who knows. but its completely unfair to even begin to start to make a decsion on what is good for your rx8 based on all the different varaibles on your work trucks.... if you want to start name calling please do it with someone else. i was being polite. if you cant understand what im trying to tell you or you have a rebutle than thats cool. but no need for the remarks you made. i understand you may not like someone telling you something you may not want to hear. specialy when it comes to something like the decison you made on what type of fi to get on your car. but be cool about it
R.
10-18-2007, 12:42 PM
#66
wow phil thanks for deleting your post and making it look like im talking out of my ***.
if you just read my post ....phil was trying to justify that sc are better on the 8 because he has alot of trucks at work. some turboed some sc'ed and the ones with a sc dont break down as much. so i said what i said above.
R.
if you just read my post ....phil was trying to justify that sc are better on the 8 because he has alot of trucks at work. some turboed some sc'ed and the ones with a sc dont break down as much. so i said what i said above.
R.
you can turn the turbo down to lessen wear on the engine. the sc will continuously cause damage. look at turbo cars and sc cars straight from the factory. sure turbos need maitnance but a super charger will end the life of your engine much sooner. besides i have my hood up everyweek anyway ....i like whats under there
R. Direct quote
For some reason my duplicate quote feature does not work so I copied your 2 earlier posts.
1. I never said s/c were better than a turbo - If I did then show me and I will resend that statement. I think that if you would have read the entire thread you would have seen postings in support of the turbo, it's just not for me.
2. I believe someone asked me why my decision on the s/c, so I answered exactly for the reasons stated oh and by the way I only related to down time due to turbos and that determination came from the dealers that were doing the repairs no from the uninformed. How many times did I say it was not scientific and just my feelings.
3. You need to prove that the s/c will end the life of my engine or any rotary engine - If that's just your belief than state is it just your feeling but I read it that you had proof. Sure would like to see it if you do. Until such time as you produce the proof I will stand by my words.
4. You accused me deleting postings with out really looking. Who was in error and (using your words, not mine) "talking out of their ***"?
This forum is a great place for open discussion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I read this entire forum to pick up ideas, hear the latest gossip, improve my 8 and expand my understanding the working of my vehicle of choice. A little forum decorum may be need by both of us.
10-18-2007, 02:20 PM
#70
There are always the jealous out there and some who think that you have to be a purest to own a sports car. Let all them MT "fanbois" do their own thing and let me and other AT owners do ours. You know I don' ever remember an AT member going on a general forum telling everyone that has an MT that they made the wrong choice.
Try going on the 7 forums, some of them hate another 7 owners cuz his a different model.
OK I'm done venting - back to work.
Phil
Try going on the 7 forums, some of them hate another 7 owners cuz his a different model.
OK I'm done venting - back to work.
Phil
10-18-2007, 03:31 PM
#71
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alright i know what happend. i read your post on the first page and replied to it on the first page not knowing there were other pages, when the post went threw it took me to the third page with out me knowing and the last post on the third page happend to be yours. i tought as i was typing my post you had edited yours when really it was an entire different post on an entirely different page.
im sorry.
as far as the sc thing goes i apologize if i misinterpreted what you wrote. i have no prof that the sc causes more or less damage than a turbo. i figure if you have a sc pullied at 8psi rountinely day in day out for the life of the engine it would cause more damage than say some one who has a turbo that can almost run stock. but one could also make the argument that a turbo can be turned up considerably more than the sc causing even more damage.
the statement i guess i should have made was. you can turn down a turbo to decrease wear on a rotary. on a supercharger you can not.
R.
im sorry.
as far as the sc thing goes i apologize if i misinterpreted what you wrote. i have no prof that the sc causes more or less damage than a turbo. i figure if you have a sc pullied at 8psi rountinely day in day out for the life of the engine it would cause more damage than say some one who has a turbo that can almost run stock. but one could also make the argument that a turbo can be turned up considerably more than the sc causing even more damage.
the statement i guess i should have made was. you can turn down a turbo to decrease wear on a rotary. on a supercharger you can not.
R.
