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FI Discussion Thread for the Boost Atheists

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Old 01-08-2009 | 03:25 AM
  #326  
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Originally Posted by Charles R. Hill
That must be the 220 RWHP the MM/BHR kit puts out that Scott was telling the Euro forums about.
Yes!

Well, we all know that the Euro to American exchange rate on horsepower is about 55 cents on the dollar.
So, it all works out.
Old 01-08-2009 | 12:16 PM
  #327  
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Nice MM
what where your intake charge temps during that?
you are not going to run out of maf are ya?
OD
Old 01-08-2009 | 12:23 PM
  #328  
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Originally Posted by olddragger
Nice MM
what where your intake charge temps during that?
you are not going to run out of maf are ya?
OD
IAT showed 65°.
The MAF is good out to 425 g/sec in the OE tube diameter.
So, yes, I will run out of MAF soon.
I'm actually running out of PCM resolution even faster.
I've exceeded AbsLOAD of 2.00 and That is where I setup my limit!
I'm starting to see AbsLOADs around 2.05
Old 01-08-2009 | 01:39 PM
  #329  
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Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
This thread hasn't been bumped in a while.
I was running some logs tonight, looking to smooth the transitions and see the effect of electronically "deleting" the VDI.
Still needs work, but it is essentially a good thing.
Now I need to work on the APV transition.

I know there are folks in one of the "other", more dogmatic threads that are particularly proud of their 330 g/sec MAF datalogs on a car that is producing 330 HP.
Note the peak MAF of 396 g/sec above.
There is actually quite a bit of the power range where the AbsLOAD is over 2.0 and stays there.
This is at 10 PSI, BTW with no belt-driven losses so airflow is airflow.
Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
Well, sorta.
That is why I pointed out AbsLOAD.

Notice how the 330 g/sec in the other thread is only an AbsLOAD of 1.65 or so.
My 396 g/sec is over 2.00.

Think about that relationship.
If your whole hypothesis is based on that "other" car making 330 whp when he was seeing 330 g/sec at the MAF, then your hypothesis needs some work. The dyno and the data log were done on two separate days, under different conditions, and since I myself have seen close to 330 g/sec, I highly doubt that's the best that his 330 whp car can do.
Old 01-08-2009 | 01:47 PM
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i recall the 330g/s run often referenced was at lower rpm and 360ish g/s was more like what he was getting at redline ....
Old 01-08-2009 | 07:35 PM
  #331  
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I made no assumptions about the proper MAF for the 330 Pettit dyno. In fact, I asked for those flow numbers and it was indicated that the MAF for the dyno run does no correspond to the MAF measurement posted some days afterward.

For the purpose of the comparison below, I will assume that the MAF for the 330 HP dyno plot was the same as mine at approximately 390 g/sec and a Pr of 1.7.

Just some quick maths:

1 g/sec = 0.1323 lb/min
1 CFM@60°F = 0.0765 lb
1 HP = ~1.55 CFM@60°F
1 CFM@60°F = 0.0283 m^3@15°C

So,

390 g/sec = 51.6 lb/min = 674.5 CFM@60°F = ~435 HP


furthermore,

674.5 CFM@60°F = 19 m^3@15°C

as per the flow diagram below, a Pr of 1.7 (approx 11 PSI) flowing 19 m^3@15°C requires ~30 HP at the crank to drive the blower.

Assume what you will about drivetrain loss.
However, if you use 17% (which is a typical number thrown around for such purposes), you will come up with a number that corresponds to the aforementioned Pettit SC dyno plot.

Remember: The loss caused incurred by a turbo shows up immediately as a reduction in net airflow - there is nothing to calculate as its requirements are already deducted from the measured mass.
A belt-driven supercharger incurs its losses on the crankshaft, so its drive requirements are subtracted from the gross engine output.



Last edited by MazdaManiac; 01-08-2009 at 07:38 PM.
Old 01-08-2009 | 07:37 PM
  #332  
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From: Under my car
Also:

I managed to get the boost controller to provide a stable 12 PSI and produced this log:



404 g/sec at an AbsLOAD of 2.05.
Ambient conditions are the same.

Fuel is finally looking smoother in 2nd. 3rd needs to be just a touch leaner.

I'll push another pound through it.
Mind you, I've done over 16 PSI on race gas. I'm looking for power on street fuel now.
Attached Thumbnails FI Discussion Thread for the Boost Atheists-log.jpg  

Last edited by MazdaManiac; 01-08-2009 at 07:39 PM.
Old 01-08-2009 | 07:58 PM
  #333  
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so if you apply the 17% to your figures you are sitting on 360-370 whp ?
Old 01-08-2009 | 08:11 PM
  #334  
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Originally Posted by Brettus
so if you apply the 17% to your figures you are sitting on 360-370 whp ?
Could be. I dunno. Its all math.
It works out correctly for the "other" car as Bastage puts it.

Last edited by MazdaManiac; 01-08-2009 at 08:15 PM.
Old 01-08-2009 | 08:17 PM
  #335  
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i thought that as your hp goes up the % drivetrain loss decreases but what would i know ....
Old 01-08-2009 | 08:22 PM
  #336  
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Originally Posted by Brettus
i thought that as your hp goes up the % drivetrain loss decreases but what would i know ....
My instinct tells me that the loss should increase as power increases since more is dissipated from the drivetrain as heat.

It also changes at different RPMs. It might be 5% at 3000 RPM and 20% at 9000.

17% as a static number is "fair", but highly problematic.

It just happens to work in the example shown.
Old 01-08-2009 | 08:25 PM
  #337  
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Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
It works out correctly for the "other" car as Bastage puts it.
nice edit
Old 01-08-2009 | 09:02 PM
  #338  
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The curve looks good!
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