Actually, I already agreed that a turbo will add more stress...I quoted you and then said, "True..".

Then you go on talking about tracking your car...I was just trying to say that there are some of us that won't track a car...whether NA or FI. I was trying to compare running FI as an everyday driver(not abusing it, but still having fun) to an NA car that someone tracks all the time...both will see more "stress" and have more potential for breaking. Not everyone that puts a turbo on will track it.

I know aftermarket FI systems aren't perfect, but you guys are acting like they made this kit in an afternoon and decided to sell it. It's like GReddy didn't install this on an RX8 and test it for more than 15 miles or 5 days. I'm not saying that it's going to last forever, but I'm sure there had to be a fair amount of safety/reliability for them to feel comfortable about releasing a turbo kit for the car.

Well, I've only had one...and had no problems for over 200k miles. Does that even us out ?

 

And I might die today when I cross the street. You got to take risks to live. 99.9% of the time those risks do not even kill you!

 

You got that right JACK! Dont live your life so calm!

 

I hardly live a calm life, I take big risks all the time, but as this car is main mode of transportation, and a 4000 dollar mistake is the last thing I need right now.

 

as of right now, there is one documented CEL with the Greddy kit. Philodox and i Both had it. it was for the secondary air injection valve not performing well. Well, Greddy supplies a gasket with a hole about half the size or less than the original. Apparently the computer notices that, and throws a cel. Having switched back to the stock gasket, no cel has reared its ugly head again. Time will tell. But really, the emissions stuff is not that big of a deal anyway, since the kit isn't even carb approved yet.

 

Well, per Philodox (we thank you so much man!)...

Greddy Turbo = $3500
HP gained = 65
$ per HP = $53.80

Is it worth it? I just don't know...

 

well, who has an exhaust here?
I do, it is the RB unit. Last time i checked ~600.00 for 3 or 4 hp, that's 200.00 per hp. Cheapest you can figure is 150.00 per hp. You do the math. No one will make you buy this kit, but damn, for 53.80 per hp, that's a damn good investment i'd say. not to mention the ability to tune harder later.

 

At last, the voice of reason.

 

It seems to me that since this is a new generation of the 13B rotary engine, Mazda has learned a few things, and improved on the past designs. For example: new intake and exhaust port configurations, new rotor design and metalurgy, cooling system, fly-by-wire ECU, break-in coating, manufacturing processes, etc.

Why would one assume that this engine is somehow inferior, or has insufficient internal integrity to handle the relatively modest additional stress of a "reasonable" FI system? From my understanding, automotive engineers design the engine components to handle 30% more stress than the engine is rated for, and that hi-performance engines generally have even more reserve capacity engineered into them. This is for reliability, safety, and to minimize warranty repairs.

As RB has stated many times, this engine is the most technologically superior rotary engine Mazda has ever released. Even in stock form it compares favorably with the earlier turbo-rotaries.

Let us also consider that the RX-8 is a sports car, and is specifically targeted to us, the sports car enthusiast market. Unless the engineering/marketing/product managers are all smoking crack, they already know the personality traits and tendancies of this market segment. We are, by definition, lead foots, who usually "feel the need....the need for speed". Those with this "affliction" many times take the path of increasing the performance of the engine, suspension, drivetrain, etc.

 

I'll wait for more turbo's to come out and maybe after my warranty.

 

^^^hehe and after you get rid of your automatic car

 

I am not going to claim I know much about the internals of this car engine, or how FI will stress different components, but I do want to make one observation. For a car that is claimed to be 240hp stock and in some corner of the world may actually be 240hp, I don't understand why there is so much concern about FI leading to a 250hp (real world) car. The only concern I could agree with would be the stress internally to the engine due to the increased pressure from FI.

 

 

Amen...Add up what some people have spent on intake/mid-pipe/catback/pulleys/canzoomer/flywheel and that hp/dollar figure skyrockets. I think this kit is definitely worth the money if you're looking at it from a hp/$ figure.

 

Who cares what it is claimed to be? It is what it is, and that is not anywhere near 240hp. Current horsepower = fun factor of x. Turbo makes fun factor of x+60. Regardless of any claims, that +60 is something you will notice.

One other thing, no one has ever claimed the car had 240 hp at the wheels. The dyno numbers that were just obtained ARE at the rear wheels.

jds

 

I'll agree with that completely. The only concern is... warranty. People already have enough problems with dealers and just intakes and exhaust. The turbo is a definite warranty voider in the US. Oddly though... in an article on this kit on pg 138 of the 2004 No.24 RX-7 mag has a blurb directly adressing the issue of being able to bring your car to the dealer or not. They checked with Mazda's Public Relations Section and they said that "as long as it conforms to legal specifications there is not a problem." Which then they say means that things like removing your cat is an obvious NG. This kit is of course using a legal tune so there is no need to change your car's registration (required when you do things like bore-up your engine or remove seats). If the power increase is thought to be the possible cause of a failure, then depending on the results of tests/examination it will be handled case by case.

So it is somewhat like what the law is in the US, but I bet they have less problems with dealers... partly because the dealers are all owned by the manufacturers. This crap in the US with dealers really needs to be challenged sometime. Sure it's a pain in the a$$ and more costly, but setting precedent is good for everyone that comes after...

 

From what I have seen most modifications out right now are around $100+ per hp so that makes the GReddy kit a pretty good deal at ~$50.00/hp. The down side is you will definitely have warranty issues from at least 99% of the dealers out there once they open your hood.

 

Speaking of warrenties.. I know this was posted on another thread.. but for easy reference here is a link to a page that describes in detail the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975. Basically it says that the dealer has to prove that a particular part/modification causes the problem. So if your power windows break, they can't blame it on your exhaust. It's a VERY good read. I highly suggest bookmarking the page for future reference.

http://www.impalaclub.com/naisso/magmoss.htm

 

You're comparing two different numbers RJ. The published 240hp numbers from Mazda are flywheel hp numbers from an engine dyno that don't take into effect drivetrain loss. The turbo kit hp numbers are from dyno'ing the car at the rear wheels where drivetrain losses are included. It's more fair to say the GReddy kit takes the RX-8 from ~186 rwhp to ~250rwhp. Friends that have dyno'd the car and my Gtech runs have shown about 186rwhp on a Stock 6M RX-8.

 

People, don't get me wrong...I'm not saying it's not worth it, I really don't know because I have never messed around with a car. $600 exhaust is a wate of money (I think) considering that the realistic HP gain is more like .5 to 1hp instead of 3-15 like I've heard some companies predict.

I too will wait (if I can hold myself back) until those 4 years or 50,000 miles are up. I honestly would prefer to increase power without a Turbo or SC, but with the rotary it seems that is not realistic. Lighter flywheel, rims, and pully's will be good upgrades but I know a Turbo or SC would make even more of an impact...

 

I seriously doubt the pullies as hp adders, even though have them. I did a dyno on this. If I had it to do over again I would have ponied up for the canzoomer unit, and tuning. At about $1000 people have dynoed about 16 to 22 whp with that unit so that would come down to around $50-$60 per hp. Again with FI one of the better mods. The reason I now bought a turbo is that I wanted a substantial increase in the torque (and the CZ unit seemed to add about 4-8 lb.-ft.).

 

from the sound of it the greddy kit is a good investment. Im sold for one since all i have read are good things about it, second it will go with my greddy exhaust, and third i can go through my sponsor and get the kit for $1,800 :D . Now i just need to get out of Iraq and the army and go back to WA .

 

For those of us without "connections" we're probably looking at $3500-4K for the kit.. possibly $800-$1200 install.. whew ..

Making it anywhere from $4300-$5200 for 60 some horsies and a ripped up warranty.

Sucks. I wish Mazda comes out with a factory Mazdaspeed one and just fixes all our problems. Haha. :o

 

$4000 total installed including shipping, turbo timer, BOV and flange :D

 

Here, I'll give you my connection for free and it's only $2929 shipped...

http://www.city-speed.com/webstore/e...ddyTurbos.html