The Great Renesis Porting Project!
12-05-2004, 01:45 AM
#203
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It needs to be very flexible so you can pull it out of the housing. That's why gasket maker is used and it isn't made to be solid but rather hollow.
guitar: Use a heat lamp. If you use the Permatex gasket maker, it will still cure in cold weather too. Just give it several hours between layers. Don't try to do the whole thing in one day. You'll only spend a few minutes on it per layer anyways so it isn't like it takes much time.
guitar: Use a heat lamp. If you use the Permatex gasket maker, it will still cure in cold weather too. Just give it several hours between layers. Don't try to do the whole thing in one day. You'll only spend a few minutes on it per layer anyways so it isn't like it takes much time.
Last edited by rotarygod; 12-05-2004 at 03:10 AM.
12-05-2004, 09:55 AM
#204
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Originally Posted by dannobre
I have just the stuff for this. Addition cured vinylpolysiloxane dental impression material. :D
Accurate to micron range and sets in any thickness in three minutes. Only problem it's a bit pricey............
Accurate to micron range and sets in any thickness in three minutes. Only problem it's a bit pricey............
Vince
12-05-2004, 12:46 PM
#205
It's very flexible.....it's a fancy silicone.....but two part, so that it dries quickly. The slow set stuff is about 6 minutes....and the fast is about 3. It is as flexible as the gasket maker as well..... It's about $60 for about the amount in a silicone caulking tube? More than makes up for the time it would take o do it the other way??
12-07-2004, 06:35 PM
#207
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Why is this not near the top 100 percent of the time? Well basically I'm gonna take it up 2marow after I get out of class and I'm going to order the O-rings and gaskets as soon as I get Dave's addy. We will almost for sure have a dyno before the new year. Unless it never gets hotter that is (I think we did the first run in like 80 degree temps and recently it's been like 40 up there). Everyone better not lose interest because we're going to have some solid figures pretty soon.
12-07-2004, 06:56 PM
#209
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i'm gonna bust *** and try to get the motor out and torn down tomorrow (depending on how much it fights me). last one i pulled i had a lift at my disposal-not just jack stands in my driveway.
if any so. cal boys wanna help pull/install, you can see how it's done and i'll pay you....but not a whole lot cuz i'm poor
if any so. cal boys wanna help pull/install, you can see how it's done and i'll pay you....but not a whole lot cuz i'm poor
12-07-2004, 09:55 PM
#212
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Yeah I thought I posted this but here's a redo. Ima hopefully stay up there with you and help/watch you work if you can give me a ride home afterward. As late as you'd like to :D
12-08-2004, 02:47 AM
#215
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When you disassemble that engine, keep track of the EXACT locations that every single little seal comes out of. They absolutely MUST go back in the same spots. No exceptions. Yes it matters. The engine was broken in this way and needs to stay this way. Do not rush this part and lose track of where they go. I usually take a piece of cardboard and trace a rotor on it. Then I lay out the pieces on the cardboard in the corresponding locations and mark the rotors. Take the time to do this. I can't stress this enough. Also do not mix up the rotor locations. Front stays front and vice versa. Hopefully you know all of this already. Take the time and do it right.
12-08-2004, 09:52 AM
#216
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thanks, but this isn't my first rotary. not by a long shot.
interestingly, the side seals are now pre-cut and no sizing is needed, unlike the rx7 motors. a lot more effort has been put into the manufacture and design of the rotors for consistancy.
interestingly, the side seals are now pre-cut and no sizing is needed, unlike the rx7 motors. a lot more effort has been put into the manufacture and design of the rotors for consistancy.
12-08-2004, 11:52 AM
#218
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Originally Posted by guitarjunkie28
thanks, but this isn't my first rotary. not by a long shot.
interestingly, the side seals are now pre-cut and no sizing is needed, unlike the rx7 motors. a lot more effort has been put into the manufacture and design of the rotors for consistancy.
interestingly, the side seals are now pre-cut and no sizing is needed, unlike the rx7 motors. a lot more effort has been put into the manufacture and design of the rotors for consistancy.
some would say they are pre-cut incorrecetly.
12-08-2004, 12:17 PM
#219
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Unlike previous rotaries, the RX-8 has letter stamps on the sides of the rotors which correspond to certain side seal lengths. It is very important that these letters match up with the seals that were intended to be used there. It is correct that you don't have to clearance them but you do have to put them back in the same spots they came from. I can't stress that part enough. Do not just pull the engine apart and let the seals fall where they will and then get back together in random locations. Yes they will still fit but they've already bedded themselves in to those exact spots. They must remain there. There is no excuse for not putting them back where they came from. The tolerance on these seals is actually worse then the older ones. I just can't stress this enough.
12-08-2004, 02:00 PM
#222
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I take it the "pre-cut" comment alludes to statements from some members of this site that the sideseals have been sized improperly from the factory, hence blowing engines.
12-08-2004, 03:23 PM
#223
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i didn't measure the clearance on the one i've got apart so far, but it looked just fine with the eye-ball scope. i'll just make sure to double check everything when i put it back together.
i'm not sure what people are talking about with them being sized incorrectly. i've heard about ambiguous side seal failure (rounding edges), but i haven't seen it yet. i don't know if it's just a farse or what.
i'm not sure what people are talking about with them being sized incorrectly. i've heard about ambiguous side seal failure (rounding edges), but i haven't seen it yet. i don't know if it's just a farse or what.
12-08-2004, 03:46 PM
#225
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The comment about the side seals being incorrectly sized was actually aimed at the fact that the clearances are much larger on these seals than on the previous rotaries. You're not going to have a problem about them fitting tight. Although the published seal clearance specs don't seem any different, in reality they are. Each rotor face also has a letter next to it. There are a few different letters depending on where they are. There are also corresponding side seals to these letters. There are 4 different side seals. This is unlike the previous rotaries where 1 side seal was clearanced to all slots. Not true anymore.
Here are the measurements of each and their stamp applications:
167.883(-0.14--0.16)
Fits B, C, D, & E Stamps
167.883(-0.06--0.16)
Fits F, G, H, & I Stamps
167.883(0-+0.02)
Fits J, K, L, & M Stamps
167.883(+0.08-+0.10)
Fits N, O, P, & Q Stamps
The springs are all the same. This is why it is imperative that they all go back in their original spots. You don't need to measure anything. Just put them back where you got them. this is a must for any rotary rebuild anyways. Too many people just pull all the seals out and then randomly stick them back in wherever at reassembly time.
The greater clearances are actually needed on the Renesis. This is because the side seals see more heat than the older engine side seals. This heat causes them to expand more. I still find it weird that Mazda saw fit to make 4 different seals that correspond to faces. Using 1 seems the easiest.
I have also seen direct proof that the side seals can in fact hit the closing edge of the auxillary ports. This happened to the housing I examined at Racing Beat back in September. This is easy to fix with a die grinder if you know where.
Here are the measurements of each and their stamp applications:
167.883(-0.14--0.16)
Fits B, C, D, & E Stamps
167.883(-0.06--0.16)
Fits F, G, H, & I Stamps
167.883(0-+0.02)
Fits J, K, L, & M Stamps
167.883(+0.08-+0.10)
Fits N, O, P, & Q Stamps
The springs are all the same. This is why it is imperative that they all go back in their original spots. You don't need to measure anything. Just put them back where you got them. this is a must for any rotary rebuild anyways. Too many people just pull all the seals out and then randomly stick them back in wherever at reassembly time.
The greater clearances are actually needed on the Renesis. This is because the side seals see more heat than the older engine side seals. This heat causes them to expand more. I still find it weird that Mazda saw fit to make 4 different seals that correspond to faces. Using 1 seems the easiest.
I have also seen direct proof that the side seals can in fact hit the closing edge of the auxillary ports. This happened to the housing I examined at Racing Beat back in September. This is easy to fix with a die grinder if you know where.