philodox

Yes, a turbo is a restriction on the exhaust flow. It lowered the exhaust note marginally, but still noticable.

Fanman

Great that is what I am looking for. I thought with my RB exhaust on the exhaust sound was perfect, but when I added my SR hi-flow cat (w/ resonator) it got a bit too loud for me. I have actaully gotten dynamat to wall the lining/bottom of my trunk, but now I guess I'll just wait until after my turbo install to see if that is still the case.

oxKatExo

i heard that you couldnt put any turbo in the rx-8!! thats awesome how much was it?

philodox

Well guys, I think I've run into my first problem with the Greddy kit. I am getting a lot of oil passing through my intake system which is causing A LOT of smoke on very cold startups. I'll try to elaborate.

Day before yesterday. It was 12deg F outside. Started up the car and after about 2 or 3 minutes of idling I got a smokescreen of white smoke with a blue hue to it. Also had very rough idle. No CEL of any sort. So I went for a short drive to get it up to temp. After the engine is up to temp there was no more smoke, and the exhaust didn't smell like burnt oil anymore. After getting home I popped the hood, there was about 1/4qt of oil on the inside of my engine bay that was being shot out of my BOV. I was about 1qt low on oil. I let the car cool down fully, then started it up again.. no problems at all this time. Refilled oil to proper levels

Yesterday. Temp is 38deg F outside. Started the car up in the morning.. no troubles at all. Ran perfectly. Still a tiny bit of oil being shot out of my BOV, but I attributed this to oil that was still in the intercooler from the day before. Oil levels were normal.

Today. Temp outside is 11deg F. Same deal at the other day. Massive amounts of white smoke with a blue hue. Oil is about 1.25qts low.

Now, I checked my oil catch can. It was filled with water. 6 ounces of water to be exact. So I drained the catch can.

I just got off the phone with Greddy's customer service. Spoke to a guy named Kenji. He just told me to check my oil return line to make sure it wasn't clogged. It if was clogged then oil would get into the intake side of the turbo. My response to him was "Why does this only happen when it's well below freezing outside?". He just told me to recheck the return line to make sure it wasn't clogged.

My thoughts, please tell me if I am way off base here... If I had that much moisture in my oil system that I had 6 ounces of water in my catch can, is it possible that I enough water in the oil pan that it actually freezes inside the return line. Hence causing the oil to be shot through the intake system until the car is up to temperature? Not driving the car anymore today. Taking it over to my mech tomorrow to look at it.

On another note, not sure if this is related or not. I got a CEL pop up on me last night. Checked the code today and it read:
P0300 Random misfire detected Flash/ON 1 or 2 Misfire (See DTC P0300 )

Can someone tell me a possible cause of this? Bad spark plugs perhaps?

Thanks guys. Any input would be GREATLY appreciated.

-Jon

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

Here's a thought. Whatever it turns out to be it is caused by the drain being below the oil level. You may be right about the water but I doubt there could be that much just from condensation. What I see happening is that the oil is so thick that it blocks free flow of return. I assume you are already running 5/30 oil.You cant get much thiner than that.

But you are also running a synthetic oil I think. Here I am not sure if the reverse viscocity works as good as it does with a mineral oil. I'm only guessing on that one.

Solution: Build a new pan that has a droped sump. Lowering the level so you have room to put the return above the oil level. You will need to lower the pick up also because you're not going to add capacity just lower the level. Create a bigger gap of air so to speak.

I have an interest here because my blower requires oil return also. On mine you would have to blow a lipseal for it to get into the intake. This could still happen I guess and the seal would need to be replaced. I don't know what kind of seal the turbo has so I don't know if it is permenent in your case.

Oil is lighter then water so the oil will be at the top and only a thin layer of water on the bottom. Trouble here is that the drain plug is designed to be at the bottom so as to do it's job.

I know the pan is very shallow and not much room exists above the level of the plug so putting the drain as high as you can by welding a drain in may not be enough help. A specially shaped tube could be made that is wide but shallow in hight. This then welded to the pan just below the lip.

The better solution is to get the custom pan built by a specialty pan maker. I know no shop that can do a one off very cheaply though. But there are some race shops that do it. Just going to cost unless you can get them a lot of pans to do.

I have some freinds in that industry, I guess I could feel them out. It nmight be a nessesity for my blower users. If it works for turbo's then it will work for me. So I'm watching this one.


Why I keep helping you get ahead of me on posts is beyond me

Oh yea, the plug misfired because it fouled with oil, that is a "fer sur."
If it doesnt clear you'll have to remove them for cleaning or replacement. In this case do not replace them with colder plugs. the colder the plug the easier it will foul.

philodox

Richard,

Thanks for the insight. I was thinking along the same lines. I do use synthetic oil... Royal Purple 5w20 to be exact.

I am debating on using a larger oil pan from a 3rd gen, hopefuly I can get one to fit.. that way I can attach the return line to the top of the pan so it doesn't sit in the 'sump'.

I agree that there should be a miniscule amount of water in the pan if any.. however, I did drain about 6 ounces out of my catch can the other night. So I'll see tomorrow when I drain the engine of oil again whether or not there is water in the system.

I am replacing the plugs tomorrow as well just to be safe. For any misfire situation that's normally the first step in the troubleshooting process if there aren't any other symptoms.

One more thing Richard, can you think of any reason why it did this in sub-freezing temps? It doesn't occur if the temp is above the freezing point.. it's very weird.

twospoons_

Is oil still ticker than ice?

Kinda worries me a tad with all the water.. Wasn't there a problem with coolant leaking into the rotor housing in some engines? ..

philodox

it's not coolant at all. I am 50/50 water/antifreeze right now.. it was 95% water/5% oil in my catch can.. that and my coolant level is fine.

Spin9k

Good luck philodox... but oopps this is not sounding like it is going to end well... plus it is potentially not a positive note for all us thinking this is (was) doable without a degree in both "turbo-dynamics" and auto mechanics or without a full time mechanic on staff.

Sniff, sniff again "fingers crossed for you"!

philodox

I don't think it's anything major. My return line may just be clogged or kinked.. i'll see tomorrow. Hopefuly it's something that simple. If it is, it's not a ding against the Greddy Kit at all.

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

OK, that makes me happier about the water. It is not water in the pan. The reason you have water in the catch can is that it is distilled there. So it is a ok for it to be there. When the car sits in moist air the hot oil cools and gets condensation. when the oil heats up you boil the condensate out into vapor and the catch can gets it. That is working for you.

This leads us to the oil viscocity. Now there is no cure for this as you are using the thinest oil available except straight 5 wt and I wouldn't like to see you running that.

I think we have a real problem here Jon. I'll keep thinking on it but I really think the pan has to go. I don't like that at all, since my kit will require the same thing.

If I get the time next few days I'll call Aviaid and ask what they can do for us. I can promise them some volume that you can't.

Edit) On the temp or freezing as you say. The point of go/no go may not be exactly at freezing but somewhere down low. I mean it may be just fine at 32 F. And not at 25f. Or it may be a point higher or lower. In fact it is probably a gradual thing. doing it only slightly at some point and the geting worse as the temp drops.

twospoons_

Or as my boss likes to call it "we have a challenge". I like to call a cow a cow, we got a f#&*@# problem here.

therm8

Where was the drain connection on the original Greddy oilpan that didn't come with the kit?

zoom44

well i dont havve much to add since Richard is on the job! misfire is from the fouled plugs of course. you shouldnt have to replace them- just clean them. but i suppose if you already have the other ones.... either way you have a spare set.
i too think the water in the catch can is from condensation,

wasnt the greddy kit intially going to have a new oil pan? i know ive seen the pics- it was a nice looking piece. but you didnt get one with the kit- just that fitting to adapt the stock pan right? so if you need a pan you should be able to get the one Greddy has....

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

I don't see it... But I thought so also.

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

Wait! I have a temp fix if nothing else. Chevy in fact all GM parts departments have a 110v heater that fits in a freezeplug hole. Now it probably will not fit your freeze plug hole but you get the picture. There are commercial heaters also. But they have less of a chance of fitting. There isn't any reason why a heater can't be fitted to the radiator in a tank. They do this on race cars both oil and water.

A quick thing could be made to fit in the hose someplace down low. It doesn't take much heat since you turn it on when you bring the car in at night, the water is already hot. The best thing of course is when its in the block. But the inlet hose isnt to far away.

This isn't directly heating the oil but they are in the same block. There may be an emersion heater available commercialy that could go in the pan. Usually they are long cigar looking things. I think there are also some thin ones. Look in your Graingers book. A thin one could go in sideways.


There is a realy trick one I understand on the new Corvette ZL-1 500 hp engine.
These are standard on Canadian cars.

philodox

Yeah, I believe the original kit was going to include a new oil pan. I think the current version of the kit was meant to be an inexpensive way to put a turbo kit on which also left room for expansion if the customer so desired. Hopefuly they will sell the oil pan as a separate peice in the near future.

But I still want to know why I have this problem only in temps below freezing... and then only during the first start of the day. I am going to speculate and say that the car has to be 100% cooled off in order for this problem to occur (being parked overnight for instance). It doesn't occur if the temp is above freezing or the car has been started and brought up to normal operating temps

zoom44

easier solution Richard- a Garage and a space heater for the Garage. my garage is insulated and my furnace and water heater are in there. even with the temps down in the teens my garage never got below 45 degrees. and except once never got below 50.

oh you want to know why Jon- it must be something to do with the return line glogging but im guessing... couldnt you wrap the return line to insulate it?

therm8

How about a pump, and a dedicated sump just for the turbo?

edit oh yeah and a cooler :D

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

44 I think that will take a few more BTU's then a block heater. Using a proportional amount more energy (money).
If his house were built like yours he wouldn't be having the problem.
His house probably has that equipment in the basement.

There you go Jon, bring it into the basement at night. In winter only of course.

philodox

It's wrapped with heat shielding right now. I suppose I could put a thermal insulator to help keep the heat in and place that under the heat shield.. but the idea is to try to keep as much heat off the return line as possible during operation.

I am starting to think that this is an extreme cold weather issue only. Which is a good thing.

Sweet! I'll put my pit crew on standby for disassembly and reassembly whenever I turn in for the night or head out during the day hehe

zoom44

ahh right Richard so its a problem with his house. going on the path of another thread- He should sue the builder of his place for not making a warm space for his car to sleep in!!

zoom44

i thought of that right after i posted that thought.

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

Jon, you can park it in my garage

philodox

hehe.. sure :p


any other turbo guru's out there care to comment on my current dilemma?