Greddy Turbo Installed - Details Inside!!!!
03-31-2005, 11:27 AM
#1626
710°C (1310°F) is not that hot at all, especially for a rotary motor.
I'd expect temps as high as 870°C to be normal. It is possible to see temps as high as 1000°C!
Since there are no valves to burn on the rotary, it isn't much of an issue.
EGT is only useful relative to maximum torque. Only once you have established what is the "right" number for your motor on a dyno can you use EGT effectively.
I'd expect temps as high as 870°C to be normal. It is possible to see temps as high as 1000°C!
Since there are no valves to burn on the rotary, it isn't much of an issue.
EGT is only useful relative to maximum torque. Only once you have established what is the "right" number for your motor on a dyno can you use EGT effectively.
03-31-2005, 12:38 PM
#1627
I would opine that rotaries' EGT's are higher precisely BECAUSE they have no exhaust valves which tend to carry away a large portion of the exhaust heat in piston engines. MM is right on the mark with regard to finding which numbers your specific engine operates best with and tuning to that, be they EGT's, A/F ratios, timing curves, or coolant temps.
CRH
CRH
03-31-2005, 01:06 PM
#1628
Rangers Lead The Way!
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
710°C (1310°F) is not that hot at all, especially for a rotary motor.
I'd expect temps as high as 870°C to be normal. It is possible to see temps as high as 1000°C!
Since there are no valves to burn on the rotary, it isn't much of an issue.
EGT is only useful relative to maximum torque. Only once you have established what is the "right" number for your motor on a dyno can you use EGT effectively.
I'd expect temps as high as 870°C to be normal. It is possible to see temps as high as 1000°C!
Since there are no valves to burn on the rotary, it isn't much of an issue.
EGT is only useful relative to maximum torque. Only once you have established what is the "right" number for your motor on a dyno can you use EGT effectively.
Ah, so I can probably lean out my A/F a bit more then since my EGT is so low when I am really pushing it?
03-31-2005, 01:25 PM
#1629
Possibly. It really comes down to how lean you can go and 1) create more power and 2) avoid preignition.
Rich is relative. 11:1 may produce the most power. 12.5:1 might be better. You need to do it with repeated, identical runs either on the dyno or on a clear track/street where the only thing on your mind is A/F (not collision avoidance).
The other issue is resolution of the E-Manage. The inherent resolution is fine, but the Greddy MAP (mine as well) is set up to address certain RPM ranges with fairly fine control. That leaves other range windows to be somewhat wider. What you do in one range affects another so you may not be able to reduce the fuel in one range without causing the next to be too lean.
Just move in small increments and see what happens.
Best bet is to have one person operate the Support Tool while the other drives.
Rich is relative. 11:1 may produce the most power. 12.5:1 might be better. You need to do it with repeated, identical runs either on the dyno or on a clear track/street where the only thing on your mind is A/F (not collision avoidance).
The other issue is resolution of the E-Manage. The inherent resolution is fine, but the Greddy MAP (mine as well) is set up to address certain RPM ranges with fairly fine control. That leaves other range windows to be somewhat wider. What you do in one range affects another so you may not be able to reduce the fuel in one range without causing the next to be too lean.
Just move in small increments and see what happens.
Best bet is to have one person operate the Support Tool while the other drives.
03-31-2005, 01:54 PM
#1630
Go Texas Longhorns!
Originally Posted by JoeMamma
I ran into the trick GReddy is using to kick the ECU into open-loop on my kit after I loaded the unlocked eManage map that was posted on this thread.
My car would have a dead dashboard temp gauge, fast idle (~2k RPM) for 5-10 seconds, then quickly settle into a proper idle after the gauge came back to life. This was caused by one of the "dongles" on the GReddy wiring loom that controls the ECT (engine temperature sensor), switching it "out" when it needs to richen the mixture and put the ECU in open loop and keep it from pulling out the additional fuel. It's a simple and effective way to get the ECU out of the way, but has the odd visual side effect of dipping the temperature gauge when in boost at low-to-mid RPM ranges.
My car would have a dead dashboard temp gauge, fast idle (~2k RPM) for 5-10 seconds, then quickly settle into a proper idle after the gauge came back to life. This was caused by one of the "dongles" on the GReddy wiring loom that controls the ECT (engine temperature sensor), switching it "out" when it needs to richen the mixture and put the ECU in open loop and keep it from pulling out the additional fuel. It's a simple and effective way to get the ECU out of the way, but has the odd visual side effect of dipping the temperature gauge when in boost at low-to-mid RPM ranges.
My CZ box has three big white connectors that connect to the stock ECU as a pass through from the stock cars sensors, so I'm trying to figure out if I can augment my wiring in a similar manor.
why does messing with the temp sensor trick the car into open loop all the time?
03-31-2005, 03:29 PM
#1631
The PCM runs in open loop when the coolant temp is low.....so tricking the PCM will switch it to open loop. The only problem I can see...is what else is it doing at the same time.....ie timing, rev limiting etc. Seems like a bastardized way to deal with this??
03-31-2005, 04:35 PM
#1632
Go Texas Longhorns!
Originally Posted by dannobre
The PCM runs in open loop when the coolant temp is low.....so tricking the PCM will switch it to open loop. The only problem I can see...is what else is it doing at the same time.....ie timing, rev limiting etc. Seems like a bastardized way to deal with this??
So are you disconnecting the temp sensor wire all together or connecting it to the emanage for the emanage to fool the computer?
03-31-2005, 04:44 PM
#1633
The dongle passes the regular temp signal through until it is triggered by the "VTEC" map in the E-Manage.
At that time, it substitutes the temp signal for a resistance that is equal to about 160°F, fooling the ECU into thinking the car is warming up.
Not really a particularly elegant solution and, as noted earlier, one that doesn't work on every car.
FWIW, I had a similar signal modifier on my Miata for a few days back when I was experimenting. It didn't like it very much.
At that time, it substitutes the temp signal for a resistance that is equal to about 160°F, fooling the ECU into thinking the car is warming up.
Not really a particularly elegant solution and, as noted earlier, one that doesn't work on every car.
FWIW, I had a similar signal modifier on my Miata for a few days back when I was experimenting. It didn't like it very much.
03-31-2005, 09:30 PM
#1634
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Jeff, out of curiosity...how did you deal with this situation when tuning for your turbo? It doesn't sound like you used a "hack" like this. How about when you were helping some of the GReddy guys for whom the base map wasn't working...did you work with this, or did you trash it and do it differently?
jds
jds
Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
The dongle passes the regular temp signal through until it is triggered by the "VTEC" map in the E-Manage.
At that time, it substitutes the temp signal for a resistance that is equal to about 160°F, fooling the ECU into thinking the car is warming up.
Not really a particularly elegant solution and, as noted earlier, one that doesn't work on every car.
FWIW, I had a similar signal modifier on my Miata for a few days back when I was experimenting. It didn't like it very much.
At that time, it substitutes the temp signal for a resistance that is equal to about 160°F, fooling the ECU into thinking the car is warming up.
Not really a particularly elegant solution and, as noted earlier, one that doesn't work on every car.
FWIW, I had a similar signal modifier on my Miata for a few days back when I was experimenting. It didn't like it very much.
04-01-2005, 12:47 AM
#1636
I was told my turbo is gona be in this week. getong guages/turbo timer installed now awaiting the 2 great boxes to arrive any tips when it is installed gona be done by the same guy philodox used. i have a uneque set up for the guages i will post pic when i get it..
04-01-2005, 11:03 AM
#1637
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I am also gettin my turbo, guages, type Rs-BOV, catchcan, oilpan and turbo timer ... i am gettting my kit on april 6 wich is a wensday and we will be doing the install that weekend ....... me and my brother .... and yes he is ASE cert. and all that good stuff and has a shop to do it at no jack stands ...... But i will take pics and post to let you all know how it goes..... hopefully it all goes well .......
Shane
Shane
04-01-2005, 01:48 PM
#1638
Where the air is rare
Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
The dongle passes the regular temp signal through until it is triggered by the "VTEC" map in the E-Manage.
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04-06-2005, 08:40 AM
#1640
AYYYY....I mean....ARRRR!
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Hey Philo. How many miles do you have on your car since the turbo install? Have there been any changes to your routine (adding oil, gas consumption, issues etc...) over this time?
04-06-2005, 09:06 AM
#1641
Rangers Lead The Way!
Thread Starter
Miles Since Install: 1750miles
Fuel Before Turbo: 12-13mpg
Fuel After Turbo: 14-15mpg
Oil Consumption: Nothing speciall.. same as always
Other Issues: Nothing worth mentioning.
Fuel Before Turbo: 12-13mpg
Fuel After Turbo: 14-15mpg
Oil Consumption: Nothing speciall.. same as always
Other Issues: Nothing worth mentioning.
04-06-2005, 12:43 PM
#1643
Rangers Lead The Way!
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by FONZIE
Great to hear! What do you plan on doing when your next inspection is due? Think you'll pass it as is?
04-06-2005, 01:30 PM
#1644
Int-X 293WHP 242TQ :)
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Here is the updated GReddy map (3-4-05 date) that they sent me yesterday -- of course you will need to save and change the file extension to .GSC
Looks like they made some mid-range adjustments and VTEC adjustments?
Looks like they made some mid-range adjustments and VTEC adjustments?
04-06-2005, 01:33 PM
#1645
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If your support tool is too old a version to use the new maps -- here is the update that GReddy sent me.
Benny's instructions:
You`ll need to open the zip file 122-142. The new support tool file will be called Project GSC. Open that file, and while online, click on the open file tab and select the RX-8 03 04 05 3 file. After it displays, you`ll need to click on the export data to Emanage tab on the upper right side. After that it should upload the data to the emanage. Thanks for choosing GReddy Products.
EDIT -- Oops the file is too big
I guess if you need it PM me or ask Benny for it directly.
Benny's instructions:
You`ll need to open the zip file 122-142. The new support tool file will be called Project GSC. Open that file, and while online, click on the open file tab and select the RX-8 03 04 05 3 file. After it displays, you`ll need to click on the export data to Emanage tab on the upper right side. After that it should upload the data to the emanage. Thanks for choosing GReddy Products.
EDIT -- Oops the file is too big
I guess if you need it PM me or ask Benny for it directly.
Last edited by RXhusker; 04-06-2005 at 01:36 PM.
04-06-2005, 01:46 PM
#1646
Int-X 293WHP 242TQ :)
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BTW - my tuner actually used the 2_20 base map that MazdaManiac posted rather than the GReddy map when he dyno tuned yesterday. The GReddy map was running SO rich (AFR's in the 9's) and the dyno plot was very jumpy. Jeff's map with some tuning to a conservative 10.5 to 11.0 AFR @ 7.0 lbs of boost got me to a peak whp of 246.
In 2nd gear at WOT this thing leaps like a rocket taking off :D -- and yes I know what that feels like -- I have been in the space shuttle simulator at NASA
In 2nd gear at WOT this thing leaps like a rocket taking off :D -- and yes I know what that feels like -- I have been in the space shuttle simulator at NASA
04-06-2005, 02:49 PM
#1647
Where the air is rare
Originally Posted by RXhusker
BTW - my tuner actually used the 2_20 base map that MazdaManiac posted rather than the GReddy map when he dyno tuned yesterday. The GReddy map was running SO rich (AFR's in the 9's) and the dyno plot was very jumpy. Jeff's map with some tuning to a conservative 10.5 to 11.0 AFR @ 7.0 lbs of boost got me to a peak whp of 246.
In 2nd gear at WOT this thing leaps like a rocket taking off :D -- and yes I know what that feels like -- I have been in the space shuttle simulator at NASA
In 2nd gear at WOT this thing leaps like a rocket taking off :D -- and yes I know what that feels like -- I have been in the space shuttle simulator at NASA
04-06-2005, 03:37 PM
#1649
Rangers Lead The Way!
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Broke_Apex_Seal
Well I still get a cel for the secondary injection. I have tried both gaskets. Nothing is working on my car.
04-06-2005, 04:09 PM
#1650
Beeeep
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Hey Jon....I think I remember you saying you were going to run the turbo for a while and then do a partial/full tear down to check things out. ( or was it to do something else?) Still planning on doing that?