How Kane and Ray build a Ceramic, Ported, Turboed Renesis!!!!
12-27-2009, 12:43 PM
#478
under stand Ray--appreciate where you are coming from.
There is a certain freedom in being a crazy old man
.
Its really great that we now have options for power than we did 2-3 years ago.
My boost?--i have the bigger pulley, a custom lim and pre blower w/m going. And yep my redline is 7.5--8K. Any higher for me is not worth all that centrifugal force and heat it generates. Again--its great to have options.
Kane thats a good idea for a new thread--sorry to get off topic here.
rotor on guys.
OD
There is a certain freedom in being a crazy old man
.Its really great that we now have options for power than we did 2-3 years ago.
My boost?--i have the bigger pulley, a custom lim and pre blower w/m going. And yep my redline is 7.5--8K. Any higher for me is not worth all that centrifugal force and heat it generates. Again--its great to have options.
Kane thats a good idea for a new thread--sorry to get off topic here.
rotor on guys.
OD
12-27-2009, 10:20 PM
#482
RX-8 = Japanese MG
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HTFUA, please.
The N54 in my 335i is making nearly 400WHP and over 400WTQ on 91 octane pump gas. With upgraded turbos and race gas, there's dynos with 500+WHP.
No one blows these engines.
I sure wish I would have had an N54 in my RX-8 versus the Renesis EZ-POP.
The N54 in my 335i is making nearly 400WHP and over 400WTQ on 91 octane pump gas. With upgraded turbos and race gas, there's dynos with 500+WHP.
No one blows these engines.
I sure wish I would have had an N54 in my RX-8 versus the Renesis EZ-POP.
Last edited by SlideWayz; 12-27-2009 at 10:23 PM.
12-28-2009, 01:52 PM
#486
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12-28-2009, 03:17 PM
#487
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There is an awful lot of whining/crying about the Renesis in your thread Kane. People complaining a naturally aspirated 10:1 compression motor is easy to blow up when strapping a turbo to it and shoveling air in. There are significant benefits to a rotary engine over jamming a small-block pushrod v8 into the same chassis, that may or may not be worth it to various people with the car. I would love to see if a LSx powered RX-8 loses significant handling capability or not. I would not describe the Renesis as "EZ Pop" any more so than any previous generation rotary. Rotary engines have more fragile components in their operation than piston engines (apex seals) making them more easy to grenade with poor tuning or failed subsystems. That's it. The rotary is a brilliant engine with a lot of benefits over piston engines, but like with anything there are drawbacks. Those drawbacks are more apparent when you take a 4-door 4-seater naturally aspirated car and do the sorts of mods we are doing to it. You either pay to play because you see the benefit or you go buy a BMW. I personally loathe BMWs and wouldn't be caught dead driving one of those rolling snotboxes, but each to their own.
/rant
/rant
12-28-2009, 05:44 PM
#489
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I think a hot 4 cylinder from an Evo or an STi might make a better swap...smaller and less weight to screw up the balance & handling. Either of those can easily and safely make over 400WHP on pump gas.
In lieu of that, a turbo 2JZ wouldn't suck either.
In lieu of that, a turbo 2JZ wouldn't suck either.
12-28-2009, 05:46 PM
#490
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Sorry, but an engine that sucks gas, doesn't make much power, and blows up at the slightest provocation has engineering flaws. It just does. Period.
I hope that eventually Mazda or someone else fixes the flaws so we can get a Wankel engine that is strong, powerful, and fuel-efficient. Everyone loves the smoothness, broad power band, and high-revving capability, so no I am not a hater. Just realistic. Also, the RX-8 is a great platform...best handling and best looking car I have ever owned.
Last edited by SlideWayz; 12-28-2009 at 05:50 PM.
12-28-2009, 05:51 PM
#491
Anyway it is a matter of needs, i'd rather turbo my car and keep my chassis than driving a "modern" 400whp powered bmw chassis. An e30 m3 chassis would be different though, it doesn't share much from its street running cousins. Again that car was built when carry-over wasn't so invasive as today.
That's kind of playing the opposite game though: where would you put your engine in?
12-28-2009, 06:32 PM
#492
Wow - you people won't behave when I'm gone huh?
The way I look at it is; I respect a clean build.... I don't care if it's a yugo - if the work is done clean REAL motor heads will respect the owner. That being said; I can make anything fast.... but ugly don't heal. And the RX8 sure is puuuuuuurdy.
The way I look at it is; I respect a clean build.... I don't care if it's a yugo - if the work is done clean REAL motor heads will respect the owner. That being said; I can make anything fast.... but ugly don't heal. And the RX8 sure is puuuuuuurdy.
12-28-2009, 06:35 PM
#493
TO stay on track - STFT -2 to +1.... LTFT is 0 up to 50 g/sec closed loop.
Open Loop average deviation = 3.26% from target up to 5000 RPMS.
More breaking in required... then on to the fun tuning - WOT!
PPS - My idle is still pissing me off.
Open Loop average deviation = 3.26% from target up to 5000 RPMS.
More breaking in required... then on to the fun tuning - WOT!
PPS - My idle is still pissing me off.
12-28-2009, 06:39 PM
#494
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Yes, about the same gas sucked by equivalent high output 6 & 8 cylinder engines. With pure highway in 6th at a lot higher than 80 mph I was getting 27 mpg as my record. The rotary engine is on the low side of fuel efficiency, but hardly the nightmare its been described as. Also if you are concerned about 1-3 mpg difference in your sports car you should probably pick a different car. Might I recommend a Prius?
232 hp from a 1.3L naturally aspirated engine is considerable. Have you ever been in a turbocharged 8? How about an RX-7? Arguing the rotary engine cannot make power is ridiculous.
This is also wrong. The rotary engine, in particular the Renesis, does not "blow up at the slightest provocation". While more fragile than many of the other engines its compared to (especially cars built from factory for boost!) it is hardly made of glass. The sheer fact that my car is still driving with good compression after all the **** its been through shows that much. In fact, most of the FI guys who have blown engines have done so because of sub-system failure or pushing the aftermarket equipment way outside its standard operating range. Have you seen how many Scubbie drivers have blown their motors due to weak *** factory rods?
Do you even have any experience at all with a modified rotary engine or forced induction setup at all?
While the art of modifying and strengthening a piston engine is well known one of the whole points of this thread is to see what is possible with a built Renesis motor as very VERY few people have done anything besides play with a stock Renesis with some bolt-ons.
There are benefits and disadvantages to the rotary and to piston engines, trying to maximize those advantages while limiting the disadvantages to exploit the whole package the RX-8 provides is what the entire Major Horsepower Upgrades forum is for. I don't care if someone does that with a LSx, a turbo the size of a watermellon, or a flux capacitor. In the case of this thread, I think Kane is well on his way to showing us what can be done with some internal engine modification, a solid turbo setup and good tuning. This isn't the place to discuss your perceptions of rotary weaknesses.
232 hp from a 1.3L naturally aspirated engine is considerable. Have you ever been in a turbocharged 8? How about an RX-7? Arguing the rotary engine cannot make power is ridiculous.
Do you even have any experience at all with a modified rotary engine or forced induction setup at all?
While the art of modifying and strengthening a piston engine is well known one of the whole points of this thread is to see what is possible with a built Renesis motor as very VERY few people have done anything besides play with a stock Renesis with some bolt-ons.
There are benefits and disadvantages to the rotary and to piston engines, trying to maximize those advantages while limiting the disadvantages to exploit the whole package the RX-8 provides is what the entire Major Horsepower Upgrades forum is for. I don't care if someone does that with a LSx, a turbo the size of a watermellon, or a flux capacitor. In the case of this thread, I think Kane is well on his way to showing us what can be done with some internal engine modification, a solid turbo setup and good tuning. This isn't the place to discuss your perceptions of rotary weaknesses.
12-28-2009, 07:24 PM
#495
Aaron don't waste your time on that troll. I'm pretty sure he blew a couple motors with the greddy kit. He obviously didn't do it right. So let him be. Hopefully he will go away. I'm really not sure why he is still on this forum if the renesis is so terrible. Oh well.
12-28-2009, 07:27 PM
#497
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Dude, you are a Johnny-come-lately to the RX-8.
Ray and Kane are using one of my old Renesis engines that I had ported for optimized FI.
I call b.s. on your claim of 27mpg at 'lot higher than 80mph' with an RX-8. Double b.s. if you are running a turbo.
The fuel consumption of the Renesis is very high for the amount of power it is making NA.
Anyway, I am subscribed to this thread to see the awesome dyno numbers that this engine is going to throw down, which I think is really cool.
Ray and Kane are using one of my old Renesis engines that I had ported for optimized FI.
I call b.s. on your claim of 27mpg at 'lot higher than 80mph' with an RX-8. Double b.s. if you are running a turbo.
The fuel consumption of the Renesis is very high for the amount of power it is making NA.
Anyway, I am subscribed to this thread to see the awesome dyno numbers that this engine is going to throw down, which I think is really cool.
Yes, about the same gas sucked by equivalent high output 6 & 8 cylinder engines. With pure highway in 6th at a lot higher than 80 mph I was getting 27 mpg as my record. The rotary engine is on the low side of fuel efficiency, but hardly the nightmare its been described as. Also if you are concerned about 1-3 mpg difference in your sports car you should probably pick a different car. Might I recommend a Prius?
232 hp from a 1.3L naturally aspirated engine is considerable. Have you ever been in a turbocharged 8? How about an RX-7? Arguing the rotary engine cannot make power is ridiculous.
This is also wrong. The rotary engine, in particular the Renesis, does not "blow up at the slightest provocation". While more fragile than many of the other engines its compared to (especially cars built from factory for boost!) it is hardly made of glass. The sheer fact that my car is still driving with good compression after all the **** its been through shows that much. In fact, most of the FI guys who have blown engines have done so because of sub-system failure or pushing the aftermarket equipment way outside its standard operating range. Have you seen how many Scubbie drivers have blown their motors due to weak *** factory rods?
Do you even have any experience at all with a modified rotary engine or forced induction setup at all?
While the art of modifying and strengthening a piston engine is well known one of the whole points of this thread is to see what is possible with a built Renesis motor as very VERY few people have done anything besides play with a stock Renesis with some bolt-ons.
There are benefits and disadvantages to the rotary and to piston engines, trying to maximize those advantages while limiting the disadvantages to exploit the whole package the RX-8 provides is what the entire Major Horsepower Upgrades forum is for. I don't care if someone does that with a LSx, a turbo the size of a watermellon, or a flux capacitor. In the case of this thread, I think Kane is well on his way to showing us what can be done with some internal engine modification, a solid turbo setup and good tuning. This isn't the place to discuss your perceptions of rotary weaknesses.
232 hp from a 1.3L naturally aspirated engine is considerable. Have you ever been in a turbocharged 8? How about an RX-7? Arguing the rotary engine cannot make power is ridiculous.
This is also wrong. The rotary engine, in particular the Renesis, does not "blow up at the slightest provocation". While more fragile than many of the other engines its compared to (especially cars built from factory for boost!) it is hardly made of glass. The sheer fact that my car is still driving with good compression after all the **** its been through shows that much. In fact, most of the FI guys who have blown engines have done so because of sub-system failure or pushing the aftermarket equipment way outside its standard operating range. Have you seen how many Scubbie drivers have blown their motors due to weak *** factory rods?
Do you even have any experience at all with a modified rotary engine or forced induction setup at all?
While the art of modifying and strengthening a piston engine is well known one of the whole points of this thread is to see what is possible with a built Renesis motor as very VERY few people have done anything besides play with a stock Renesis with some bolt-ons.
There are benefits and disadvantages to the rotary and to piston engines, trying to maximize those advantages while limiting the disadvantages to exploit the whole package the RX-8 provides is what the entire Major Horsepower Upgrades forum is for. I don't care if someone does that with a LSx, a turbo the size of a watermellon, or a flux capacitor. In the case of this thread, I think Kane is well on his way to showing us what can be done with some internal engine modification, a solid turbo setup and good tuning. This isn't the place to discuss your perceptions of rotary weaknesses.
12-28-2009, 07:31 PM
#498
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Every vehicle is a platform of compromises. There are gives and takes from every aspect. Thankfully BHR's build with Kane's engine has provided a platform where no expense was spared. I'm eager to see the final results and what I've heard so far has been very promising. Kane's car has become more purpose built and that more narrow focus on performance will be evident as time goes on I'm sure.
Performance and reliability is very possible with the RENESIS provided the build process is handled well and power numbers are realistic. If you're looking for a ***** out badass build then you best be prepared to deal with the consequences that come with that. Some vehicles out there make gobs of power very easily on stock internals. We all know a few household names that fit into that category. All platforms are compromises in some respect. The aftermarket additions we make don't change that. Being the best, fastest, or most powerful means dealing with reliability issues on some level.
I don't think Kane set out to break any records but obviously any positive results in that direction would be welcomed!
Performance and reliability is very possible with the RENESIS provided the build process is handled well and power numbers are realistic. If you're looking for a ***** out badass build then you best be prepared to deal with the consequences that come with that. Some vehicles out there make gobs of power very easily on stock internals. We all know a few household names that fit into that category. All platforms are compromises in some respect. The aftermarket additions we make don't change that. Being the best, fastest, or most powerful means dealing with reliability issues on some level.
I don't think Kane set out to break any records but obviously any positive results in that direction would be welcomed!
Last edited by Flashwing; 12-28-2009 at 07:36 PM.
12-28-2009, 07:59 PM
#500
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Every vehicle is a platform of compromises. There are gives and takes from every aspect. Thankfully BHR's build with Kane's engine has provided a platform where no expense was spared. I'm eager to see the final results and what I've heard so far has been very promising. Kane's car has become more purpose built and that more narrow focus on performance will be evident as time goes on I'm sure.
Performance and reliability is very possible with the RENESIS provided the build process is handled well and power numbers are realistic. If you're looking for a ***** out badass build then you best be prepared to deal with the consequences that come with that. Some vehicles out there make gobs of power very easily on stock internals. We all know a few household names that fit into that category. All platforms are compromises in some respect. The aftermarket additions we make don't change that. Being the best, fastest, or most powerful means dealing with reliability issues on some level.
I don't think Kane set out to break any records but obviously any positive results in that direction would be welcomed!
Performance and reliability is very possible with the RENESIS provided the build process is handled well and power numbers are realistic. If you're looking for a ***** out badass build then you best be prepared to deal with the consequences that come with that. Some vehicles out there make gobs of power very easily on stock internals. We all know a few household names that fit into that category. All platforms are compromises in some respect. The aftermarket additions we make don't change that. Being the best, fastest, or most powerful means dealing with reliability issues on some level.
I don't think Kane set out to break any records but obviously any positive results in that direction would be welcomed!
Good work Kane, ranting about trolls aside... I'm really impressed with what you have done so far and I'm also super curious about your experience with the ceramic seals. Any thoughts/feelings/comments about them specifically as you continue tuning and breaking the motor in would be more than welcome.