I want your opinion On Turbo question ...
02-12-2009, 08:13 PM
#28
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The Cobb has made all the other EMS solutions totally obsolete.
It remaps the factory ECU to chase new targets instead of the piggyback stuff.
The Int-X and Xede are the next best thing, since they at least take full control of spark and fuel.
No one has yet managed 50k+ miles on a turbo Renesis. Every blown engine is due to a failure of the rear (apex) seal. That's 100% as far as I know. Many suspect there's cooling problems, especially with a turbo sitting so close to the rear housing.
The last engine I popped was tuned very conservatively AND I was running 2 gallons of 104 race gas with every tank. No pings did I hear. Blew anyway.
Maybe with a top-mount turbo along with a correctly-sized turbo + Accessport, we'll see some reliability. Maybe. But just count on a new engine if you FI.
If the REW could be made cost-effective AND able to pass CA emissions, then I'd sell a kidney to finance the swap.
It remaps the factory ECU to chase new targets instead of the piggyback stuff.
The Int-X and Xede are the next best thing, since they at least take full control of spark and fuel.
No one has yet managed 50k+ miles on a turbo Renesis. Every blown engine is due to a failure of the rear (apex) seal. That's 100% as far as I know. Many suspect there's cooling problems, especially with a turbo sitting so close to the rear housing.
The last engine I popped was tuned very conservatively AND I was running 2 gallons of 104 race gas with every tank. No pings did I hear. Blew anyway.
Maybe with a top-mount turbo along with a correctly-sized turbo + Accessport, we'll see some reliability. Maybe. But just count on a new engine if you FI.
If the REW could be made cost-effective AND able to pass CA emissions, then I'd sell a kidney to finance the swap.
02-13-2009, 10:22 PM
#30
I would advise to buy a complete kit to avoid a lot of head aches. Trust me, chasing down stupid little parts is annoying and it adds up, quick.
Also, everyone says they want 350-rwhp, but that's a lot. That's nearly double the power you have now- work your way up to it. The car will feel hella fast with "just" 280-rwhp.
I would also strongly consider the Cobb AP. It is a little difficult with the MAF, but not that bad. Well worth it. Also some kind of ignition upgrade is advised, as well as cooling upgrades.
Also, everyone says they want 350-rwhp, but that's a lot. That's nearly double the power you have now- work your way up to it. The car will feel hella fast with "just" 280-rwhp.
I would also strongly consider the Cobb AP. It is a little difficult with the MAF, but not that bad. Well worth it. Also some kind of ignition upgrade is advised, as well as cooling upgrades.
02-14-2009, 01:13 AM
#32
Turbocharger Guru
just tired of hearing ppl complain about how this motor is so special and cant be boosted like the older rotaries....yeah I know
. I have a hard time seeing that much power out of the side exhaust port design. That is a lot of heat blowing past the side seals. Most of the heat in the older ****** motors is concentrated in the middle of the apex seal and the double apex springs are capable of handling 1700F EGT's. The side seal and corner seal springs are the first to collapse b/c of excessive heat because they are so tiny.
02-14-2009, 01:04 PM
#35
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02-14-2009, 01:05 PM
#36
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02-14-2009, 01:45 PM
#38
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and btw there have been front rotor failures reported here as well
me too
02-14-2009, 01:59 PM
#39
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none that i'm aware of to quote from the forum here, and since this forum obviously encompasses the entirety of all RX-8 enthusiasts worldwide, i'll just go ahead and say you're right to avoid a stupid argument.
as for this, the apex seals are not always the culpirt as is famous in previous rotaries. factors like port location, cooling, etc make the side seals a weaker link - and the trend thus far is that side seals are most problematic. in fact, the apex seals are tremendously more forgiving than those of an RE/REW.
and btw there have been front rotor failures reported here as well
me too
as for this, the apex seals are not always the culpirt as is famous in previous rotaries. factors like port location, cooling, etc make the side seals a weaker link - and the trend thus far is that side seals are most problematic. in fact, the apex seals are tremendously more forgiving than those of an RE/REW.
and btw there have been front rotor failures reported here as well
me too
Also, go ahead and provide the list of all the turbo Renesis engines that have gone more than 50k miles without failure.
Let's have regard for truth and fact. I gave you the data I've gathered. What's your data?
02-14-2009, 05:11 PM
#43
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I would advise to buy a complete kit to avoid a lot of head aches. Trust me, chasing down stupid little parts is annoying and it adds up, quick.
Also, everyone says they want 350-rwhp, but that's a lot. That's nearly double the power you have now- work your way up to it. The car will feel hella fast with "just" 280-rwhp.
I would also strongly consider the Cobb AP. It is a little difficult with the MAF, but not that bad. Well worth it. Also some kind of ignition upgrade is advised, as well as cooling upgrades.
Also, everyone says they want 350-rwhp, but that's a lot. That's nearly double the power you have now- work your way up to it. The car will feel hella fast with "just" 280-rwhp.
I would also strongly consider the Cobb AP. It is a little difficult with the MAF, but not that bad. Well worth it. Also some kind of ignition upgrade is advised, as well as cooling upgrades.
the cooling system is on the target for sure, and we already have them in mind what we need to make it happen, of course in the end he will have AI. we are talking about radiator, water pump, anything else that help for cooling.
AS far IGNITION, this is really debating, we are looking for the good product, as lately we can see there are a lot of out there, the only thing we can do is waiting to the result from other people experience toward the products.
AS EMS, i don't have any weight among them, but since i am using INT-X, and i have the tuner that can tune it directly, it's better for us to use INT-X. i have seen AP, it is good, but JEFF is a busy guy, cool guy, but if we can be independent and use our tuner to tune the car, i think it will be better route for all type of turbo car.
just incase if we wanna upgrade the turbo or what ever it is, we don't have to wait for JEFF to download teh map, we just can tune it.
chickenwafer, i am not an expert, but i am open for the advice toward the cooling and ignition, if you are willing to share.
i accept the advice from ppl too, and remember that i am not an expert, and we always learn something new.
steven
02-14-2009, 06:35 PM
#44
cooling - BHR/griffin radiator, mazmart water pump, use the AP to alter fan-on temps. these are the absolutes... ultimately you want to introduce water/methanol injection to keep the EGT temps down.
ignition - BHR Yukon coil conversion
ems - as has been said the accessport is the best route.. I say leave the ems purchase till the end.. remember the Cobb street tuner software for the rx8 is just now making it's way into tuners hands
ignition - BHR Yukon coil conversion
ems - as has been said the accessport is the best route.. I say leave the ems purchase till the end.. remember the Cobb street tuner software for the rx8 is just now making it's way into tuners hands
Last edited by alz0rz; 02-14-2009 at 06:38 PM.
02-14-2009, 06:41 PM
#45
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fwiw the only 2 FI failures that were confirmed apex's(or even corners) i can think of off the top of my head were due to 1) WAY overboosting, and 2) complete lack of tuning.... if your doing things right, you should have side seal longevity failure before apex seal failure
02-14-2009, 06:53 PM
#46
Thanks everyone ESPECIALLY steven; for all the advice. When it comes down to it I am a newbie when it comes to boost. I have been stuffing my brain with knowledge for thae last couple of weeks. Theirs just so much information on these turbo threads; its hard to desiffer opinion from fact.
02-14-2009, 08:14 PM
#47
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data? all you did was pull a statement out of your *** that tells me your an educated person who doesnt read too well. but, no thanks, you can believe what you like, i'm not here to teach you anything Mr. MIT. I'll tell you where to look though... failures - start here, then talk to(listen rather) those who rebuild a lot of rennies. FI longevity - your probably gonna have to leave the forum to find, again a good place to start is rebuilders, oh and people who work with race teams.
fwiw the only 2 FI failures that were confirmed apex's(or even corners) i can think of off the top of my head were due to 1) WAY overboosting, and 2) complete lack of tuning.... if your doing things right, you should have side seal longevity failure before apex seal failure
fwiw the only 2 FI failures that were confirmed apex's(or even corners) i can think of off the top of my head were due to 1) WAY overboosting, and 2) complete lack of tuning.... if your doing things right, you should have side seal longevity failure before apex seal failure
Tell ya what, muster up all those turbo Renesis engines with 50k+ miles boosted and ANY turbo Renesis engines that didn't bugger up something in the rear housing/seals.
Back to the main topic: if you boost this engine, be prepared to replace it before you've clocked 50k miles FI.
02-14-2009, 08:18 PM
#48
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then 
then 
...its truly sig worthy.
02-14-2009, 08:43 PM
#50
Damn this sounds almost so depressing. Just thinking about This; I probably will spend some where around 8 grand in the next 3-4 months for a complete turbo setup, with supporting mods, AI, installation, and Tuning. Just to blow a engine and spend a other 2k on a block plus install. all this plus the remander of my loan i might aswell sell the car break even. put a down payment on a BMW M3 which will have the horses im looking for.