Excellent work! Perhaps I should buy a series 2?

 

Well done Hymee

I look forward to more information on your system. I am at the crossroad as well with my car so, this kit may be enough to keep me interested.

I hope you give Brisbanites some preference

Good luck

skc

 

beers hymee. ill be emailing you soon got to go to work now

 

Congratulations Hymee. Best wishes for a successful launch in March.

Now, get a Sydney tuning shop on board!!!

Those of us who are mechanical will need support with this if my inability to follow most of this thread is anything to go by .

 

Congrats Hymee, your S/C kit was one of the nicest pieces of after-market equipment I have ever seen and I have no doubt that this product will be just as good.

Are you going to create some base line flashes for N/A cars and say the Greddy Turbo, it would be great to have a starting point that is somewhat conservative and could be dialed in at an individual level.

Awesome work man!

 

Well done Hymee,

Stuff a "Sydney tuning shop" what about a training workshop up in BrisVegas!! Lets russle up Daves, Macca, et all......ROAD TRIP!!!

 

yes and yes

 

Yes and for example, if you use the RB flash, RB's web site (if you read carefully) instructs you to pull the 'room' fuse just before you start a track session to erase any learned trims so they won't affect you track maps they have set into your ECU. Then the only trims the ECU can start to 'learn' from are those produced from your on-track driving, and likely that is much more tuned towards 'very agressive' and a majority of 'open loop' driving lol. Bottom line, I do the 'room' fuse pull each session.

 

ok woah guys . where did we all lose our memory. od you're running a flash in your car now. is the pcm trying to impose stock values?

NO! Because the values have been changed. period end of story the pcm has been given a new set of instructions. where it used to do A it now does 3

Flash tuning for FI is done all over the auto industry. will it work? YEAH of course see above.

RB has done a flash tune for FI- remember the white SC'd car? Damon did that tune while at RB before he moved to Mazda.

Trim- Short term fuel trim is used to adjust the long term fuel trim. LTFT adjusts the actual fuel delivery. Lets use some real easy numbers. During CLOSED LOOP the PCM gets info on the amount of air the engine is ingesting. It looks at a table and says i need to inject 5 parts of fuel so i need to fire the injectors for that much fuel.

Then the wide band mesures the result and says " you know what it looks like you only injected 4.5 fuel so keep the injector open a little longer, m'kay?"

rinse and repeat. thats stft. those increments are added to the LTFT so that from then on the computer fires teh injectors for what the table says AND LTFT. it keeps checking it over and over and adjusting to hit the target.

with tuning YOU CHANGE THE TARGET. so it does all of its adjusting to the new target. during OPEN LOOP the PCM fires what the table says +/- LTFT but without the checking and adjusting you get in closed loop.

in reality what would be best is not forcing open loop but having a system that was able to operate in closed loop no matter what rpm /load etc was going on- it would be more accurate


we just arent there yet.

 

Well, I didn't lose my memory, and the fact is that unfortunately the trims the RX-8 creates are not created to a 'perfect tune' goal apparently, but a 'rich tune' goal. So there are still tricks that need to be played on it even when the 'perfect tune' ala RB race flash (perfect tune) has been implanted in it's little brain.

So unless and until (perhaps Hymee's flash is able to do this) the algorithms or constants that determine these offset trim numbers are redone, I'll continue to pull the fuse.

 

not you spin- that was mainly directed to the previous page. and 2% rich with a 1% difference in power on an FI rotary using normal at the pump fuel sounds like a good plan to me

 

wondered but didn't know what (who) 'od' meant. But anyway, even 1% (2.32HP) power being so easy to obtain (and use) at the track, why not? That's equal to/more than many exhausts or pulleys or intakes or ...... a lot of things

 

FINALLY! The announcement I've been waiting for!

 

didn't Cobb say it wouldn't be geared towards FI? I think this looks like a good fit for what you want.

 

no, they said it will ship with base maps for NA applications... then the tuning software will be available shortly afterwards

 

gottcha! Thanks for the clarification Rotor.

 

"at the track" is of course the end of the discussion. do what you feel is necessary etc. but OD and others thinking the trim is somehow "fighting" the tune" is what im on about. the trim is trying to make the car perform its tune based on feedback from its sensors on what is actually happening.

im sure trim algorithms are in the firmware and not in the flashable software

 

I guess there will still be the bugabo of 'fighting the trim' and by that I mean 'fighting FOR the lean tune WE want vs what the car wants, i.e., with the car wanting a bit too rich a tune, even when we can flash. Oh well maybe it's not enough to worry about in the end.

 

If the lookup tables can't be changed with a flash tune...we are wasting our time trying to flash the PCM for FI uses.....so The lookup tables must be accessible to the flash tune.

I just hope all the knock and throttle values can be tweeked as well

 

Zoom--I understand what you are saying about target values being replaced. i cant talk about details but it seems "it ain't that easy". It seems one secret to getting this pcm NOT to trim toward undesirable a/f's is to get the maf to not trim to much. After a number of study cars it is FAIRLY standard that the MAF is trimming 3-5%. One car was actually adding fuel but it was because it had a small vacuum leak.
so a target of 12.5 could be trimmed 5% richer or leaner. resulting in a range from 13.1 to 11.9 basically. Now do you sacrifice the 12.5 to go with a target 11.9 because you DO NOT want a 13.1 on a boosted engine?
That is what i talking about concerning the trims.
oldscdragger

 

Easy, fellas. A wishlist won't do us any good at this stage. I'm just looking forward to being able to view and adjust what my car is doing without paying $1200 for the privilege.

 

Not questioning this product at all now please understand. I was just wondering how they were handling this trim problem. I never meant to insinuate that it wasnt possible, just meant i dont have a clue as to how they handled it. I prefer to have some idea of how things work before i get them. I have learned that lesson.
rotor on
oldscdragger

 

I think there is a forest and trees issue here.
You don't need to "deal" with the LTFT in a flash program - the way it works is you change the values in the look-up tables. That is what flash programming is.
Once you change the target, the LTFT will adjust to that - not the old, unwanted, original values.
If you are having an issue where tuning an external device is changing the trims (I don't understand why you would need that, but it seems to be what is being discussed here), you just change the lambda look-up for that load cell to reflect the desired value and it will trim to that.

 

MM then please explain RB's comments about using their flash. They've modified the tables through a 'flash', but are still saying the internal ECU goal will lead to a overly rich mixture anyway by developing trims over time from using 'light to moderate load' developed numbers... then using these during WOT to change the 'perfect tune' they flashed in?

It's either one way or the other. Either you can flash the ECU to do what you want completely or you can't and have to account for its action otherwise.

edit: maybe there's a way to turn off the effect the ECU has developed (its trims) so it doesn't play into WOT fuel maps any longer?

 

I don't believe RB ever successfully modified the lambda tables.
I think they only played with the load targets.
I think their whole "pull the O2 sensor" reasoning was borne out of this.
As far as I can tell, the RB flash is pretty worthless for an FI application because they didn't really get control of anything.
They simply made a virtual Canzoomer box.