Mazda RX8 Turbo
11-19-2002, 11:44 AM
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Mazda RX8 Turbo
Doesn't that sound nice? Just imagine an RX8 with a
turbo!That thing would compete with the most fastest
supercars. Tell me what you think.
turbo!That thing would compete with the most fastest
supercars. Tell me what you think.
11-19-2002, 01:05 PM
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Drive it like U stole it!
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I believe that the 250hp will satisfy my power requirements; however, if I did want more power please make it a three rotor. No turbo for me please.
12-05-2002, 06:40 PM
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A report from rotary news said that the MPS version will NOT be turbocharded. Instead they will increas the rotar width. This is not an offical report, just speculation, but I hope they are right.
12-05-2002, 09:15 PM
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They gave both the Protege and the 6 a turbo, so why would they shun their flagship sportscar?
But yeah, turbos suck. I mean, if I was a protege enthusiast, it would really **** me off that Mazda was making a totally fast badass version of the protege.
But yeah, turbos suck. I mean, if I was a protege enthusiast, it would really **** me off that Mazda was making a totally fast badass version of the protege.
12-06-2002, 11:02 AM
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i agree that Mazda has to keep this car reliable, but if they COULD in fact add a small, light pressure turbo with little-to-zero effect on reliability (even if it meant more maintenance), i'd be all for it... turbos freakin' ROCK!! 
but true, i'd love to see a more muscly rotor...
but true, i'd love to see a more muscly rotor...
12-06-2002, 01:30 PM
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Question
Let's say Mazda will produce another RX-7, and they don't want it to be turbocharged (as they've already said) Why not create a 3-roter engine that has rotors about the size of a 10A's rotors? I am against turbocharging a rotary personally because of the reliability thing that has been discussed at length in this forum and others. As of now, there is a '94 FD at my local Mazda dealership that has been in the repair bay for close to a month because a mechanic turned his wrench the wrong way and the car experienced turbo failure (Geez they were so delicate, but so powerful at the same time, ironic isn't it?
) Anyway, the thought of a 3-rotor RX-7 coming to america will give me an orgasm. You think the reason it hasn't been done is because Mazda is really concerned about the weight distribution and they want to keep the engine behind the front axle? I dunno somebody tell me something.
) Anyway, the thought of a 3-rotor RX-7 coming to america will give me an orgasm. You think the reason it hasn't been done is because Mazda is really concerned about the weight distribution and they want to keep the engine behind the front axle? I dunno somebody tell me something.
12-06-2002, 02:02 PM
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nah, they'll not bring a three rotor... you've got to think of other problems (and big fat costs) inherent in that design, like the mega long bolts needed to assemble the block...
the idea of wider rotors is really really cool, especially if they give the next 7 a redline at 10 000 rpm, aggressively geared to match (kill the fuel economy!! PLEASE!!
)... that extra couple of cc's ought to make a HUGE difference in bottom end torque, and with a vehicle wieght around the 2800 lb. mark, look out everything...
back on topic, turbos aren't bad if they work well...
and it is funny about that performance tradeoff, speed for reliability... racers have this same tradeoff too: F1 cars make between 800 and 900 horsepower, but their engines blow up every few hundred kilometres...
same thing with the FD, except the tradeoff was there, and the system was overengineered...
the idea of wider rotors is really really cool, especially if they give the next 7 a redline at 10 000 rpm, aggressively geared to match (kill the fuel economy!! PLEASE!!
)... that extra couple of cc's ought to make a HUGE difference in bottom end torque, and with a vehicle wieght around the 2800 lb. mark, look out everything...back on topic, turbos aren't bad if they work well...
and it is funny about that performance tradeoff, speed for reliability... racers have this same tradeoff too: F1 cars make between 800 and 900 horsepower, but their engines blow up every few hundred kilometres...
same thing with the FD, except the tradeoff was there, and the system was overengineered...
12-06-2002, 03:43 PM
#10
I'm against turbos not because of reliability (though that's part of it), but because there's NOTHING like the throttle response from an NA engine, and there's no 'hot weather' lag.
12-06-2002, 03:43 PM
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Re: Question
Originally posted by 1.3 liter
I am against turbocharging a rotary personally because of the reliability thing that has been discussed at length in this forum and others. As of now, there is a '94 FD at my local Mazda dealership that has been in the repair bay for close to a month
I am against turbocharging a rotary personally because of the reliability thing that has been discussed at length in this forum and others. As of now, there is a '94 FD at my local Mazda dealership that has been in the repair bay for close to a month
The FACTS are that there have been turbo RX-7s every year since 1982, and the vast majority of them are actually very reliable. Putting it another way, Series 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 RX-7s were all turbocharged and series 6 (93-95) was the only one with major problems. This is NOT because turbo rotaries are inherently unreliable, but because all of the bugs in the FD's twin turbo setup weren't fixed before it was brought to market. And even 93-95 FDs can be made quite reliable if you perform the so-called "reliability upgrades" and proper maintainence.
I have yet to see a single decent, intellegent, or coherent argument why a moderately sized single turbo RENESIS wouldn't be a very good thing.
12-06-2002, 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by Hercules
I'm against turbos not because of reliability (though that's part of it), but because there's NOTHING like the throttle response from an NA engine, and there's no 'hot weather' lag.
I'm against turbos not because of reliability (though that's part of it), but because there's NOTHING like the throttle response from an NA engine, and there's no 'hot weather' lag.
12-07-2002, 08:58 AM
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Originally posted by m477
They gave both the Protege and the 6 a turbo, so why would they shun their flagship sportscar?
They gave both the Protege and the 6 a turbo, so why would they shun their flagship sportscar?
Originally posted by m477
This is yet another example of how the reliability argument against turbos is completely based in ignorance.
This is yet another example of how the reliability argument against turbos is completely based in ignorance.
Originally posted by m477
Have you ever actually driven a car with a nice new ceramic ball bearing turbo? Because the response is quite nice, and quite honestly, you sound like you haven't.
Have you ever actually driven a car with a nice new ceramic ball bearing turbo? Because the response is quite nice, and quite honestly, you sound like you haven't.
12-07-2002, 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by NOTA V6
The RX-7 is the flagship sportscar.
The RX-7 is the flagship sportscar.
Originally posted by NOTA V6
So are you arguing then that turbos do not make cars less reliable, or engine lifespan shorter?
So are you arguing then that turbos do not make cars less reliable, or engine lifespan shorter?
Personally, I think that a 2006 RX-7 should be at least as fast as the 2002 RX-7, and a turbo 1.3l would have more power (and TORQUE) than an NA 1.4l. If they could make it really light, then 1.4l NA would be enough. Otherwise, it would sadden me to see Mazda moving backwards in terms of performance while other car companies are making progress.
12-08-2002, 02:42 AM
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hey now, i don't want to get all persnickety, or critical of anyone, but i wouldn't be so quick to judge a turbo necessarily a better performer than a small displacement increase. i know that you could put on a way bigger turbo, but then again you could then also have a really big displacement increase, right?? i don't think that the next 7 (which i doubt will be an "FE" by name... just a hunch... the first one was an SA after all, and this next one'll be on a totally difference chassis/suspension setup than the FD) will be the sort of car to outrun a 911Turbo just on power and low mass alone, or the sort of car which will burn a hole in your pocket: Mazda will be filling the mid-$30k to low-$40k US dollar range, just above the 8...
so, to prevent high costs and unaffordable gas, insurance, and taxes, the next incarnation of the greatest sports car ever won't have the legs of a Z06, turbo or not.
so, this brings me (the scenic way ) to my point that a small turbo setup mayn't be the best solution for the car: an aggressively geared, lighter and smaller, higher revving, larger displacement (~1.4L or whatever) RENESIS for the next 7 may in fact be a wholly better solution, even power and torque (at the wheel) wise than a taller geared, heavier and larger, lower revving, smaller displacement (the 1.3L) turbo RENESIS...
i'm simply suggesting, this MAY be the case. i don't think that either of us is an engineer (i'm at least 50% right ), so we can't really tell yet, can we??
so, let's not be all judgemental before we really see what's gonna happen.
btw: Mazda WAS building and selling right-hand-drive RX-7's i think as late as earlier this year, and not an RX-8 has been produced for market yet, so NOTA's statement is (at this moment) a little more accurate... but yes, eventually, you'll certainly be correct.
so, to prevent high costs and unaffordable gas, insurance, and taxes, the next incarnation of the greatest sports car ever won't have the legs of a Z06, turbo or not.
so, this brings me (the scenic way
) to my point that a small turbo setup mayn't be the best solution for the car: an aggressively geared, lighter and smaller, higher revving, larger displacement (~1.4L or whatever) RENESIS for the next 7 may in fact be a wholly better solution, even power and torque (at the wheel) wise than a taller geared, heavier and larger, lower revving, smaller displacement (the 1.3L) turbo RENESIS...i'm simply suggesting, this MAY be the case. i don't think that either of us is an engineer (i'm at least 50% right
), so we can't really tell yet, can we??so, let's not be all judgemental before we really see what's gonna happen.
btw: Mazda WAS building and selling right-hand-drive RX-7's i think as late as earlier this year, and not an RX-8 has been produced for market yet, so NOTA's statement is (at this moment) a little more accurate... but yes, eventually, you'll certainly be correct.
Last edited by wakeech; 12-08-2002 at 02:45 AM.
12-08-2002, 11:55 AM
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Well, I AM an engineer, just not a mechanical engineer. 
Anyway, I don't see why a turbo wouldn't be cost effective. So you start with the RX-8 platform which has a base price of $26k. Remove the rear doors, seats, make it shorter, etc. and that would put you at about $24k. Add the factory turbo setup, realistically about $4k. Then, the car will probably need bigger brakes to deal with all that power, so add another $2k. So now you have a C6 beater for $30k flat. Even with every option it would still be under $35k. You think people wouldn't want that?
So Mazda wil do it, maybe they won't. Who knows. I'm just saying that they could if they wanted to.
And there's obviously a demand - look at the turbo protege, they can't make enough of those things because they keep selling out so damn fast.
If they need to make a lower-priced NA in addition to the turbo model to keep the bean-counters happy, that's fine. I just hope they don't leave the enthusiasts out in the cold on this one.
Anyway, I don't see why a turbo wouldn't be cost effective. So you start with the RX-8 platform which has a base price of $26k. Remove the rear doors, seats, make it shorter, etc. and that would put you at about $24k. Add the factory turbo setup, realistically about $4k. Then, the car will probably need bigger brakes to deal with all that power, so add another $2k. So now you have a C6 beater for $30k flat. Even with every option it would still be under $35k. You think people wouldn't want that?
So Mazda wil do it, maybe they won't. Who knows. I'm just saying that they could if they wanted to.
And there's obviously a demand - look at the turbo protege, they can't make enough of those things because they keep selling out so damn fast.
If they need to make a lower-priced NA in addition to the turbo model to keep the bean-counters happy, that's fine. I just hope they don't leave the enthusiasts out in the cold on this one.
Last edited by m477; 12-08-2002 at 11:57 AM.
12-09-2002, 02:23 PM
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oh, i'm all for a sub $40k corvette killer... and if they use turbos to do it, all the better :D i still really love 'em...
my point was just that if Mazda's target horsepower was ~300, or maybe a bit less, than a small displacement increase might be the simpler, lighter, and cheaper way to do it over a turbo system.... but oh ya, for a V8 killer, turbo all the way, with a whistling wastegate, and a loud-as-a-bus BOV... damn, that'd be sick.
and for the sake of the company, the idea of the rotary engine, and ya, for the enthusiasts too, i'd love to see a "track dominating" RX-7 reborn... then to have 'em go back to Le Mans and kick some more ***, or even to the CART series, which is suppost to have it's engine rules deregged or something, right?? i dunno if that's still the way it'll be, but maybe, just maybe, the rotary can again fly in some premier racing series...
my point was just that if Mazda's target horsepower was ~300, or maybe a bit less, than a small displacement increase might be the simpler, lighter, and cheaper way to do it over a turbo system.... but oh ya, for a V8 killer, turbo all the way, with a whistling wastegate, and a loud-as-a-bus BOV... damn, that'd be sick.
and for the sake of the company, the idea of the rotary engine, and ya, for the enthusiasts too, i'd love to see a "track dominating" RX-7 reborn... then to have 'em go back to Le Mans and kick some more ***, or even to the CART series, which is suppost to have it's engine rules deregged or something, right?? i dunno if that's still the way it'll be, but maybe, just maybe, the rotary can again fly in some premier racing series...
12-09-2002, 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by wakeech
...then to have 'em go back to Le Mans and kick some more ***, or even to the CART series, which is suppost to have it's engine rules deregged or something, right??
...then to have 'em go back to Le Mans and kick some more ***, or even to the CART series, which is suppost to have it's engine rules deregged or something, right??
A Mazda rep mentioned that they are looking into developing an RX8 for the Speed World Challenge GT series, but even then, who knows if it would make any of the 2003 races. And as good as that series is, I don't think anyone considers it a "premier" racing series.
---jps
12-09-2002, 06:45 PM
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heh heh, were've i been?? in the back seat of an Impala with my girl... and i've never been interested in CART... i went to the race in Vancouver to watch the touring guys that race afterwards... F1 is where i'm at.
btw: having spec engines sucks... i'm sorry to hear that had to happen to CART...
well, even if the Speed World Challenge isn't a premier racing series, i'm not disappointed to find out Mazda's gonna enter SOMETHING rotary in SOME racing series!!
btw: having spec engines sucks... i'm sorry to hear that had to happen to CART...
well, even if the Speed World Challenge isn't a premier racing series, i'm not disappointed to find out Mazda's gonna enter SOMETHING rotary in SOME racing series!!
12-09-2002, 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by wakeech
heh heh, were've i been?? in the back seat of an Impala with my girl...
heh heh, were've i been?? in the back seat of an Impala with my girl...
06-15-2004, 12:24 AM
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Re: Re: Question
Originally posted by m477
This is yet another example of how the reliability argument against turbos is completely based in ignorance.
I have yet to see a single decent, intellegent, or coherent argument why a moderately sized single turbo RENESIS wouldn't be a very good thing.
This is yet another example of how the reliability argument against turbos is completely based in ignorance.
I have yet to see a single decent, intellegent, or coherent argument why a moderately sized single turbo RENESIS wouldn't be a very good thing.
The fact is that if you add a turbo to any car, you effect it's longevity and overall long term reliability. A turbo model of this car will simply not have the longevity of a N/A Renesis. A lot of it is because of the driver. You can't expect every driver to take it easy on car, and/or not modify it in some way. It is one more thing that can go, cause more problems, and ultimately lead to engine failure. If you modify, you take away the life of engine, plain and simple. I know I am stating captain obvious here, but that's just the nature of turbos. I still think they should make a deluxe limited monster version of the rx8. It will be costly, but this car does deserve more punch to match it's looks. Whatever is needed to make this car compete with the big boys and be as fast as it looks, I am sure Mazda will add to this car in future.