saw this on there site. anyone know the advantages achieved with this mod?

http://www.mazsport.net/store//page658.html

oh and if this has already been discussed just say so and i'll delete this, i just couldn't find anything on here about it.

 

Straight from the link...

"Mazsport can UPgrade your GReddy Turbo for your Mazda RX8!

This upgrade is designed to improve power output of your pre-existing GReddy turbo by:

Modifying the compressor wheel to a larger size which will develop more CFM.
Rebuilding and Rebalancing the Rotating Assembly.
To have this done, just send your GReddy Turbo to our contact address and we will perform this service for you and ship it back to you once complete. (Turn-around time is usually within 3-5 business days once we receive it)

Benefits:

"More Power" from your GReddy Turbo Kit.
Having your Turbo Upgraded from a reputable company you can trust"

I'd say those are the advantages.

 

I would assume the OP is interested in seeing real world gains.

 

Give us a before / after dyno plot so mysql can add it to his thread. :D

 

Just a guess, but the greddy peaks fast and dies off fast. I bet the mod would make you boost come up a bit slower but last higher up into the rpm's. If you look at the dyno chart the Greddy seems to die @7500rpms. Depending on what they do, you might hold or gain power closer to redline.

It has no specs so its hard to say.

 

Damn, a grand will buy a man a very nice turbo these days...brand new from the manufacturer, and capable of triple the hp that the baby greddy is. The only thing the greddy has going for it is the ease of fitment, and the fact that moving much more air into the renesis than the greddy does will probably kill it anyway.

 

I'm not one to knock Scott, but you can get a brand new Garrett 2871R (which fits on the GReddy manifold/downpipe) for only slightly more than the rebuild service and it flows more on both sides.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying that moving more air into the motor will kill the motor or that moving more air will kill the turbo?
The Renesis is good out past 40 lbs of air, provided you can supply the fuel.

 

I am saying that, thus far from what I have seen, there are very few turbo renesis' making more than 300-325 at the wheels with results that can be replicated, which is something that previous turbo rotaries could do on their stock versions of turbos all day long. Therefore...*with the electronics and tuning on the renesis in their current state* it would be difficult for a larger turbo to really be utilized anyway.

The greddy 618z is a baby turbo, but it is still probably capable of producing 100-150% more flow than the rx-8 kit provides out of the box...yet look at the members on this very forum who have killed their engine with the measly 6psi. This means to me, that at this point in the game, more air and larger turbos won't do you much good if your engine controls won't support it.

I'm not saying that the engine block itself can't accept more air and more power...of course it can. I find it odd, and disurbing that there is almost no one running a haltech/microtech/whatever controlled renesis yet, to defeat the stock ****-style control system.

 

Its mostly because the average RX-8 owner is not ready to relinquish the creature comforts afforded by the OEM PCM.
The DBW, DSC/TCS, EPS, A/C and ABS are all intrinsically tied to the OEM PCM.

The Interceptor-X is a Microtech, BTW. So, there are some semi-stand alone options.
The problem is they won't pass emissions (codes) and since the '8 is still a contemporary vehicle, that is a no-starter for the typical daily driver.

The big-power rotary folks don't care about the creature comfort stuff. They are also mostly pretty old-school, so they won't be bothered with learning a new motor. That is why the few 400+ club people are REW or 20b.
Goo luck with that in Cali or any other place with smog laws.

 

When the GReddy Turbo kit was released it killed a lot of engines because in was "incomplete" there were a lot of things missing from the kit. Now it's more of tuners not knowing how to tune the renesis. Many tuners still say the renesis engine isn't capable of anything over 300. Of course that's another whole story.

 

From reading MMs posts on here, I have learned alot and will agree. I wouldnt give up many of the comforts of the OEM PCM. I am actually holding out on the Greddy kit, junking the 618Z and doing a GT28 or even a 30.

The only thing is the PCM. I dont want a check engine light, and I also dont want to damage my engine. Also have to keep in mind RX7s didnt make great reliable power for quite sometime, tuning a rotary isnt cake like a piston engine. Eventually I think someone will crack the PCM and it will be easy to make reliable power with no worries.

 

Well here is the thing in my mind. You can go on and on about how much of an engineering marvel the renesis is. You can talk about how it is a quantum leap above the previous rotary, how much more efficient it is, blah blah. How, if you were to swap in a previous version of rotary for more power, you are abandoning a superior platform in favor of dinosaur technology. I haven't been on this forum long, but I've done enough reading to know the old song-and-dance before someone spouts it off again.

But, at the end of the day, if the electronics tied to it prevent you from doing what you want and making the power that you could with an older setup, then all that "superiority complex" goes right out the window.

I'm not saying that a 13bt or rew with a big single turbo hanging off the side is the most reliable or efficient thing...but you can say that it is simple to set up and the path for power is clear and cheap(er) as compared to the renesis setup with it's ****-style pcm in this chassis.

Would you rather struggle and worry trying to make 300 at the wheels with this setup after investing about 8-10 grand into a proper turbo setup and tuning...or would you rather do an engine swap to a more boost-friendly version of rotary and retrofit an older/less intrusive control system with tunes readily available and make 4 or 5 at the wheels for way less? Think about it...REW engines on the stock ecu with full exhaust and intake on stock twins make 300-325 at the wheels before touching the turbos or fuel system. Then add an 800 dollar PFC and a set of 1300 fuel injectors and you're good for 360. Then bolt on a single and you're good for 450.

 

Your logic is off.
You are admitting that it is the electronics, then suggesting that you trade the motor and electronics as the solution.
If that is so, then just trade the electronics and keep the motor. The solution would yield more power using your assumptions.
But, that puts us right back to square one and my statement bout the typical user, so all you are suggesting in the end is to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Better electronics exist and some of us are using them. The path to "monster" power is the same on this vehicle as the last. As soon as the aftermarket catches up, solutions will be in the mainstream and won't require sacrifices of creature comfort.

 

Maybe ................ Just maybe a simple choice of having new technologies with comfort of renesis or dinosaur technologies with power....... ?

 

I think the issue is that the electronics available make your gauge cluster a Christmas tree with all the lights. Eventually I may resort to this, but with only 23k and a full warranty, I dont want to throw that out the window. Im hoping we will have a great solution like I had with my RSX. I loved the KPro, easy to tune, very cost effective, and no lost functionality.

 

Precisely my point.

With the exception of the e-Manage Ultimate, none of the engine management options available right now make the PCM happy.

 

Wasn't Mazsport's kit making over 300-325 whp, and the problem wasn't engine or electronics related but due to ignition failing at that point ?

 

Yes. The spark was blowing out at that point. However, RotaryRessurection doesn't believe in ignition failures of that sort, so some other gremlin must have been in play.

 

No offense to Mazsport, I wish them all the best and it's nice that they support the industry, but for 10 grand I had better get a shitload more than 300-325. 10 grand into most platforms (solely in power adders and engine performance) usually nets well over 500 at the wheels.

Sorry, but the math just doesnt add up.

Jeff...what conclusion are you drawing with regard to me and my beliefs about the rx-8 ignition system? If this "unspoken truce" we have observed the past week is going to remain in effect, I suggest you don't ASSUME anything about me, I am sure you know what they say about ASSumptions.

I actually think the ignition system is more suspect on this engine than any other previous rotary...look at the coil failures on bone stock cars. I had to swap coils on my measly stock low power motor to cure the misfire it had.

 

I agree - the coils are weak - that is my point.
Maybe its a terminology breakdown.
The expression "blow out the spark" is a misnomer. The charge density is just too high at raised power levels to be jumped by the relatively low current available at the secondary windings of the stock coils, so the gap doesn't get jumped around the torque peak. At that point, the "spark gets blown out".
The ASSumption was based on your own post.

Scott's stuff is way expensive. Its also gorgeous, hence the price tag.

 

for the price of the Mazsport upgrade ($1000 plus shipping your T618Z to Florida and then back to you) you can get a Garrett GT2871R that will support over 400+rwhp. It takes some modification to make fit the downpipe and manifold, but anyone compitent with a welder can handle it.

This is the route I am going in September- GReddy manifold, dp, up pipe, intercooler, all the plumbing, EMU, and the Garrett GT2871R.

The "qwest" for ultimate power is not held back by the Renesis' design, but mainly the lack of aftermarket support. The ignition is weak at over 340-rwhp. And most owners, like Jeff has said, want to keep their traction control, ABS, and not have all the warning lights on the dash on. They want their RX-8 to function like a stock RX-8- except faster. Which is how Jeff's car is- it acts stock until you get into boost- then it's a bat out of hell. No warning lights, no check engine lights, no weird or strange noises, no rough idle- all perfect- and 340-rwhp capacity (pesky ignition problems again!).

But also, how much power does a 13b-rew make at just 12 pounds of boost on pump gas? Not more than the Renesis does at the same boost. It's higher compression and a more efficient design.

There are a few standalones, like the MoTeC M880, but it cost around $5,000 and you loose all those things you want. That is why most people haven't gone that route.

 

so basically the greddy isa beggining kit, if you are unhappy with the results you have all the parts to hold an upgrade?

 

the GReddy isn't a beginining kit. It works well for what is was designed for- low boost. It's when you start pushing the boost the little T618Z can't keep up. You can add the Garrett GT2871R because it fits in the tight confines where GReddy places the turbo and it fits the GReddy cast manifold and downpipe with some modification

 

Who was it that was sharing concern with the gredy turbo location and the effects of the increased temps on the motor? Wasn't some substantial wear noticed on housings nearest the turbo during a complete teardown of the motor? Won't the Mazsport upgrade make it run even hotter? Should we even be concerned?

 

Please excuse my shameless plug, but this is one of the reasons why I like what I had created. I don't have to be concerned with any of that^. Taking the turbo outside of the engine compartment instantly solves the issue of unwanted hit and the size of the turbo.
There is plenty of fresh air and space where my turbo sits.