MOP Adjustments
#302
![UK](https://www.rx8club.com/images/icons/ukflag.jpg)
Wow - one of the best threads I have had the pleasure of reading and after 3rd read its starting to make sense.
Someone said make this a sticky and I totally agree, theres nothing like this on any other forum around the world.
Did anyone actually finally prove that they could increase (or decrease) oil consumption to the rotors?
many thanks guys - Mark
Someone said make this a sticky and I totally agree, theres nothing like this on any other forum around the world.
Did anyone actually finally prove that they could increase (or decrease) oil consumption to the rotors?
many thanks guys - Mark
#303
Modulated Moderator
iTrader: (3)
It is easy to adjust the MOP table with the correct tool...either a Cobb AP or a programer like MazdaEdit. There is a very evident changes in the pump outputs
The Racing Beat pump modification was stopped soon after implementation for an unknown reason....but likely it was a lot of work and irrelevant after the software programmers allowed us to modify it electronically
The Racing Beat pump modification was stopped soon after implementation for an unknown reason....but likely it was a lot of work and irrelevant after the software programmers allowed us to modify it electronically
#304
Registered
iTrader: (25)
And the $1k+ cost ... I wouldn't be surprised if someone got into a limp mode issue with the swap and didn't understand the switch position adjustment procedure back in those days either
Ps: unfortunately there's a substantial amount of false info in this thread along with the good info
Ps: unfortunately there's a substantial amount of false info in this thread along with the good info
#305
Wankler
![Question](https://www.rx8club.com/images/icons/icon5.gif)
Look at the first page, specifically MMs posted pictures. Look closely and you can make out that the position switch mounting holes are radially slotted. This allows the position switch to have an approximate 20 degree rotational mounting position range on the metering pump. This is explained in the thread. I understand wading through all the subsequent BS posts can be tedious, but fully reading a thread is the only way to find the diamonds amongst the coal.
Apparently the flash is so old that Cobb can't even generate a copy of the last AP flash they did for my STU project into a newer flash version. Both their program structure and Mazdas fueling strategy changed since then.
.
Apparently the flash is so old that Cobb can't even generate a copy of the last AP flash they did for my STU project into a newer flash version. Both their program structure and Mazdas fueling strategy changed since then.
.
- what a STU project?
Thanks
![Confused](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/confused.gif)
#307
Wankler
#308
Wankler
![Question](https://www.rx8club.com/images/icons/icon5.gif)
Sorry if I'm dense - I know the preferred method is to use a COBB, MazdaEdit, etc. to adjust the oil flow rate; maybe I missed this - but - anyone tried out / has comments about the suggestion that the set screw in the OMP/MOP be screwed in a bit, then the position sensor adjusted a similar bit counterclockwise?
![Sad](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/sad.gif)
#309
Modulated Moderator
iTrader: (3)
Sorry if I'm dense - I know the preferred method is to use a COBB, MazdaEdit, etc. to adjust the oil flow rate; maybe I missed this - but - anyone tried out / has comments about the suggestion that the set screw in the OMP/MOP be screwed in a bit, then the position sensor adjusted a similar bit counterclockwise? ![Sad](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/sad.gif)
![Sad](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/sad.gif)
The position switch tells the ECU where the stepper position is
STU is an autocross class
Last edited by dannobre; 03-23-2014 at 06:08 PM.
#310
Wankler
![Thumbs up](https://www.rx8club.com/images/icons/icon14.gif)
![Wavey](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/wavey.gif)
Thanks dannobre, I (believe) I understand about how this all works.
![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
(1) Just to confirm I understand - So maybe the only way to physically adjust the pump would be to leave the position switch alone, leave the stepper motor in its original position, somehow take the curved toothed rack off without moving anything including its pivot point and the pinion gear, reinstall the rack a few teeth down, screw the set screw down to the new position, and close up?
Of course, to avoid the cost of a Cobb or MazdaEdit, the physical adjustment would just be a guess as to the oil flow change, such physical adjustment would be hard to do, and any mistake might screw up the OMP.
(2) I notice MazdaEdit is much less expensive than a Cobb. Can you change the oil flow rate of the OMP with MazdaEdit?
(3) What's the advantage of a Cobb versus MazdaEdit?
Thanks
![Worship](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/worship.gif)
#312
Wankler
![Thumbs up](https://www.rx8club.com/images/icons/icon14.gif)
I agree. I'll take your advice. Thanks for your help and expertise.
Last edited by Rx8 Dave; 03-25-2014 at 03:44 AM.
#313
no agenda
iTrader: (2)
I've not used ME but have been trying to stay informed by following
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-eng...daedit-239275/
1) The Cobb AP is an actual device that you receive, and used to upload or reflash the ECU map vs the ME which is software that is loaded on a laptop and the laptop is used to flash the ECU map.
(EDIT: The ME requires the use of the Tactrix http://www.tactrix.com/ which I believe is actually doing the heavy lifting of the ECU flashing)
2) The Cobb AP is a handy device that also allows data logging and general monitoring of your cars vitals vs the ME which I believe can do the same but would require you're laptop which is more awkward than the Cobb AP
3) The Cobb AP as a product seems to be more mature and less buggy vs the ME which still seems to be working out issues (this is purely speculative on my behave as I've never used ME but I know Brettus was having issues in the early days. Things by his account are better, but just how much he would have to say)
4) The Cobb AP is only a reflasher tool it has no ability on it's own to adjust anything, for that you need to use a piece of software called the Access Tuner Race (ATR) vs ME which is all in one
5) ATR software is ok by means of offering you enough tables to get things done (while still wanting more) and the tables are titled ok with some strangeness that isn't a very long learning curve. vs. ME which has access to a great deal more tables however the tables (my understanding) are not labelled which means you need to know what you're looking at or experiment slightly.
6) You can be ready to go using the Cobb for as little as 300 usd vs ME which I believe has a initial purchase price and a yearly software support fee.
If anyone using ME would like to correct me, please do. I'm rather curious about the exact differences as well.
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-eng...daedit-239275/
1) The Cobb AP is an actual device that you receive, and used to upload or reflash the ECU map vs the ME which is software that is loaded on a laptop and the laptop is used to flash the ECU map.
(EDIT: The ME requires the use of the Tactrix http://www.tactrix.com/ which I believe is actually doing the heavy lifting of the ECU flashing)
2) The Cobb AP is a handy device that also allows data logging and general monitoring of your cars vitals vs the ME which I believe can do the same but would require you're laptop which is more awkward than the Cobb AP
3) The Cobb AP as a product seems to be more mature and less buggy vs the ME which still seems to be working out issues (this is purely speculative on my behave as I've never used ME but I know Brettus was having issues in the early days. Things by his account are better, but just how much he would have to say)
4) The Cobb AP is only a reflasher tool it has no ability on it's own to adjust anything, for that you need to use a piece of software called the Access Tuner Race (ATR) vs ME which is all in one
5) ATR software is ok by means of offering you enough tables to get things done (while still wanting more) and the tables are titled ok with some strangeness that isn't a very long learning curve. vs. ME which has access to a great deal more tables however the tables (my understanding) are not labelled which means you need to know what you're looking at or experiment slightly.
6) You can be ready to go using the Cobb for as little as 300 usd vs ME which I believe has a initial purchase price and a yearly software support fee.
If anyone using ME would like to correct me, please do. I'm rather curious about the exact differences as well.
Last edited by wcs; 03-25-2014 at 06:01 AM.
#315
Boosted Kiwi
iTrader: (2)
3) The Cobb AP as a product seems to be more mature and less buggy vs the ME which still seems to be working out issues (this is purely speculative on my behave as I've never used ME but I know Brettus was having issues in the early days. Things by his account are better, but just how much he would have to say)
.
All the tables that are labelled in the Cobb are also labelled in M/E plus a few extras.
*One huge advantage with M/E (pro version only) is that you can tune multiple cars (so long as you can physically have access to it) with the same software . With Cobb - every car has to have it's own Accessport.
*Another huge advantage with M/E is that it is available for ALL model RX8s including S2 . Cobb can only be self tuned (via ATR) on North American RX8s (excluding S2).
* The logging software is better on M/E : Much easier to manipulate logs and view all the parameters visually as well as compare with previous logs.
* The monitoring software is better on M/E : You can monitor multiple parameters in real time and customise the gauges to suit . With the Cobb you just get one digital readout .
*One big drawback with M/E - it has virtually no resale value .
Cobb on the other hand ...does.
Last edited by Brettus; 03-25-2014 at 11:22 AM.
#317
Wankler
![Thumbs up](https://www.rx8club.com/images/icons/icon14.gif)
^^^ Ditto. Great information, Brett! Covers all rest of the questions and more. ![Score](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/score.gif)
(Between tha Canadians and New Zealanders, we got it covered!)
![Score](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/score.gif)
(Between tha Canadians and New Zealanders, we got it covered!)
![Wink](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/wink.gif)
Last edited by Rx8 Dave; 04-08-2014 at 06:38 PM.
#318
Since I installed a Sohn adapter on my car, there is a recurrent fault : under high loads, high engine speeds, the car gets a CEL and defaults to a very slow fail mode. DTC is P1686 : OMP circuit low flow side problem.
I suspect one of the following as the root cause for the DTC :
- slight modification of the position switch position with regards to the stepper motor assy following the installation of the Sohn adapter
- bad contact in the position switch connector because the wiring is (or was) a bit stretched due to the thickness of the Sohn adapter
- faulty switch
I'll try to slightly rotate the position switch clockwise as a first step in fixing this issue.
Fabrice
I suspect one of the following as the root cause for the DTC :
- slight modification of the position switch position with regards to the stepper motor assy following the installation of the Sohn adapter
- bad contact in the position switch connector because the wiring is (or was) a bit stretched due to the thickness of the Sohn adapter
- faulty switch
I'll try to slightly rotate the position switch clockwise as a first step in fixing this issue.
Fabrice
Last edited by Rasputin; 03-12-2015 at 12:16 PM.
#321
Release the twins.
i would think the word "circuit" is a hint that it's not liking the electrical read out, it may just be a bad stepper motor sensor circuit. it's been a while since i've dug into it but is there a specific reading on a scan tool/data logger for omp position? stretched wires is a good clue, if only could could monitor the readout while jiggling the wires to see if it fluctuates...
#322
Boosted Kiwi
iTrader: (2)
I just spent an afternoon trying to unravel the mysteries of the omp. Upon doing this I realised this thread has a lot of incorrect information. I'm not sure if anyone else realised this back when the thread was done and I can't be bothered re-reading the whole thing so :
The OMP has a stepper motor that drives a geared cam that is regulated by a position sensor . When the PCM commands the valve open, it rotates in a counter-clockwise direction in a series of steps that are regulated in a servo motor fashion from minimum to maximum.
.
Correct
Incorrect .
The stepper motor adjusts the position of the cam . Thus allowing the brass sleeves to move up and down further as they are rotated. The needles don't move but effectively form the piston of the pump as the brass outer sleeve moves.Oil doesn't "get by", it enters the pump as the sleeve holes align with the pressurised engine oil holes and is then pumped into the exit holes by the sleeve action.
There are four pumps effectively . Two small ones tied together and two larger ones tied together (via the needles). These pumps are all connected in such a way that they provide equal flow to each exit hose. The smaller pump is activated sooner than the larger one to give the ecu a means of effectively and gradually increasing flow. The larger pump rotates (pumps) at almost twice the speed of the smaller one.
It also highlights a couple of potential issues with the Sohn adapter :
1/get air into the pump and it's highly likely it wont self prime.
2/even if there is no air the pump output is likely to be less than the stock setup . This is due to internal leakage that will exist in this type of pump.
Armed with the knowledge above... I believe I have worked out a cost effective way to increase the omp output by up to 50% whilst retaining a similar flow at low rpm/load.
Thread to come soon once tested.
The OMP has a stepper motor that drives a geared cam that is regulated by a position sensor . When the PCM commands the valve open, it rotates in a counter-clockwise direction in a series of steps that are regulated in a servo motor fashion from minimum to maximum.
.
The stepper motor adjusts the position of the cam . Thus allowing the brass sleeves to move up and down further as they are rotated. The needles don't move but effectively form the piston of the pump as the brass outer sleeve moves.Oil doesn't "get by", it enters the pump as the sleeve holes align with the pressurised engine oil holes and is then pumped into the exit holes by the sleeve action.
There are four pumps effectively . Two small ones tied together and two larger ones tied together (via the needles). These pumps are all connected in such a way that they provide equal flow to each exit hose. The smaller pump is activated sooner than the larger one to give the ecu a means of effectively and gradually increasing flow. The larger pump rotates (pumps) at almost twice the speed of the smaller one.
It also highlights a couple of potential issues with the Sohn adapter :
1/get air into the pump and it's highly likely it wont self prime.
2/even if there is no air the pump output is likely to be less than the stock setup . This is due to internal leakage that will exist in this type of pump.
Armed with the knowledge above... I believe I have worked out a cost effective way to increase the omp output by up to 50% whilst retaining a similar flow at low rpm/load.
Thread to come soon once tested.
Last edited by Brettus; 10-08-2018 at 09:36 PM.
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rob babicki (11-06-2020)
#323
Zoom-Freakin'-Zoom
iTrader: (5)
I just spent an afternoon trying to unravel the mysteries of the omp. Upon doing this I realised this thread has a lot of incorrect information. I'm not sure if anyone else realised this back when the thread was done and I can't be bothered re-reading the whole thing so :
Correct
Incorrect .
The stepper motor adjusts the position of the cam . Thus allowing the brass sleeves to move up and down further as they are rotated. The needles don't move but effectively form the piston of the pump as the brass outer sleeve moves.Oil doesn't "get by", it enters the pump as the sleeve holes align with the pressurised engine oil holes and is then pumped into the exit holes by the sleeve action.
There are four pumps effectively . Two small ones tied together and two larger ones tied together (via the needles). These pumps are all connected in such a way that they provide equal flow to each exit hose. The smaller pump is activated sooner than the larger one to give the ecu a means of effectively and gradually increasing flow. The larger pump rotates (pumps) at almost twice the speed of the smaller one.
It also highlights a couple of potential issues with the Sohn adapter :
1/get air into the pump and it's highly likely it wont self prime.
2/even if there is no air the pump output is likely to be less than the stock setup . This is due to internal leakage that will exist in this type of pump.
Armed with the knowledge above... I believe I have worked out a cost effective way to increase the omp output by up to 50% whilst retaining a similar flow at low rpm/load.
Thread to come soon once tested.
Correct
Incorrect .
The stepper motor adjusts the position of the cam . Thus allowing the brass sleeves to move up and down further as they are rotated. The needles don't move but effectively form the piston of the pump as the brass outer sleeve moves.Oil doesn't "get by", it enters the pump as the sleeve holes align with the pressurised engine oil holes and is then pumped into the exit holes by the sleeve action.
There are four pumps effectively . Two small ones tied together and two larger ones tied together (via the needles). These pumps are all connected in such a way that they provide equal flow to each exit hose. The smaller pump is activated sooner than the larger one to give the ecu a means of effectively and gradually increasing flow. The larger pump rotates (pumps) at almost twice the speed of the smaller one.
It also highlights a couple of potential issues with the Sohn adapter :
1/get air into the pump and it's highly likely it wont self prime.
2/even if there is no air the pump output is likely to be less than the stock setup . This is due to internal leakage that will exist in this type of pump.
Armed with the knowledge above... I believe I have worked out a cost effective way to increase the omp output by up to 50% whilst retaining a similar flow at low rpm/load.
Thread to come soon once tested.
once again, NICE.
beers
![Beer](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/beer.gif)