The newest 100% bolt on Greddy Hybrid turbocharger!
#802
Turbocharger Guru
Thread Starter
Actually it was 349whp but corrected it came to 333 .....
Also videoed a run with a very soft takeoff and reached 110mph(176km/hr) in approx. 13.3s . See utube clip below .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7NMIKfdBaw
A bigger intercooler (12x3) improved the overall pressure drop for my setup by less than 1psi .
Also videoed a run with a very soft takeoff and reached 110mph(176km/hr) in approx. 13.3s . See utube clip below .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7NMIKfdBaw
A bigger intercooler (12x3) improved the overall pressure drop for my setup by less than 1psi .
You have a time slip from a 1/4 mile track?
#803
Boosted Kiwi
iTrader: (2)
No , but that video should be enough . Cars that do 13s 1/4mile trap around 110 mph don't they ?
And I don't think Greg is seeing a 10psi drop , perhaps he needs to clarify that here.
From another thread , here is the test I did a while back ...
And I don't think Greg is seeing a 10psi drop , perhaps he needs to clarify that here.
From another thread , here is the test I did a while back ...
Spent today fitting and testing my new larger intercooler .
here is a size comparison
![](http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s255/brettus_rx8/Image001.jpg)
Flow test results :
![](http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s255/brettus_rx8/intercooler.jpg)
As you can see the improvement is around 10-15g/s from 5600rpm onwards which roughly translates to 10-15whp . This is way less of an improvement than what I was expecting .
I hooked up my boost guage just after the turbo to see if the pressure drop i was previously experiencing had improved and found it had but by only about 1 psi .
Still seeing about 5psi pressure drop across the system .
My IATs at cruise dropped from about 12degrees above ambient down to about 7-8 degrees above ambient .
So : I am a little dissapointed with the result . There are a couple of possibilities for why these results were not that good :
1/ The cheap intercooler i bought just does not flow that well and is still causing a significant restriction.
2/ The 50mm dia pipeing to the intercooler is causing a restriction .
Will have to hook up the boost guage to just before the intercooler to determine that .
EDIT : swapped back to Greddy - see posts later in thread to see why .....
here is a size comparison
![](http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s255/brettus_rx8/Image001.jpg)
Flow test results :
![](http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s255/brettus_rx8/intercooler.jpg)
As you can see the improvement is around 10-15g/s from 5600rpm onwards which roughly translates to 10-15whp . This is way less of an improvement than what I was expecting .
I hooked up my boost guage just after the turbo to see if the pressure drop i was previously experiencing had improved and found it had but by only about 1 psi .
Still seeing about 5psi pressure drop across the system .
My IATs at cruise dropped from about 12degrees above ambient down to about 7-8 degrees above ambient .
So : I am a little dissapointed with the result . There are a couple of possibilities for why these results were not that good :
1/ The cheap intercooler i bought just does not flow that well and is still causing a significant restriction.
2/ The 50mm dia pipeing to the intercooler is causing a restriction .
Will have to hook up the boost guage to just before the intercooler to determine that .
EDIT : swapped back to Greddy - see posts later in thread to see why .....
Last edited by Brettus; 05-30-2010 at 03:46 PM.
#804
Turbocharger Guru
Thread Starter
I am working on sponsoring Gregs an intercooler. It won't be the typical intercooler set up.
Man that greddy intercooler is a restriction. I don't even know why you are arguing the fact. The Greddy cooler would be fine if the volume could pass through it. He is running methenol injection.
Man that greddy intercooler is a restriction. I don't even know why you are arguing the fact. The Greddy cooler would be fine if the volume could pass through it. He is running methenol injection.
#805
Boosted Kiwi
iTrader: (2)
I am working on sponsoring Gregs an intercooler. It won't be the typical intercooler set up.
Man that greddy intercooler is a restriction. I don't even know why you are arguing the fact. The Greddy cooler would be fine if the volume could pass through it. He is running methenol injection.
Man that greddy intercooler is a restriction. I don't even know why you are arguing the fact. The Greddy cooler would be fine if the volume could pass through it. He is running methenol injection.
![Dunno](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/dunno.gif)
I don't really have a horse in this race but would like to help because I have gone through all this myself and would like to see some better results from others . Particularly greg because he has put a lot of effort into his setup ...
Last edited by Brettus; 05-31-2010 at 07:12 PM.
#806
SPOOLN8
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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Actually it was 349whp but corrected it came to 333 .....
Also videoed a run with a very soft takeoff and reached 110mph(176km/hr) in approx. 13.3s . See utube clip below .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7NMIKfdBaw
A bigger intercooler (12x3) improved the overall pressure drop for my setup by less than 1psi .
Also videoed a run with a very soft takeoff and reached 110mph(176km/hr) in approx. 13.3s . See utube clip below .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7NMIKfdBaw
A bigger intercooler (12x3) improved the overall pressure drop for my setup by less than 1psi .
#808
Turbocharger Guru
Thread Starter
You can tell the car makes good power, but it isn't against a clock. The great thing about a track is the time starts when you move from the tree and the clock stops when you go accross the finish line. If the car runs, go run it just like you did in the clip. And you can be in the 12 second club if you hook :D.
#809
Banned
iTrader: (3)
Why does this keep getting repeated.
Someone is confusing Gregs mention of high and low boost numbers across the RPM band with his 1 PSI measured drop across his intercooler.
I'll try to go through this thread and address all the other mistakes, but that one keeps coming back and it's annoying.
#813
Boosted Kiwi
iTrader: (2)
Question for Bryan :
When you look at different T04e compressor wheels available there seems to be inconsistencies in the flow charts .
IE
maximum flow
50 trim - 48lb/min
54 trim - 45lb/min
57 trim - 44lb/min
60 trim - 50lb/min
I was led to believe that the larger the inducer diameter the more flow (with same exducer) but these numbers seem to make a mockery of that .
How can a 50trim flow more than a 57 trim ?
When you look at different T04e compressor wheels available there seems to be inconsistencies in the flow charts .
IE
maximum flow
50 trim - 48lb/min
54 trim - 45lb/min
57 trim - 44lb/min
60 trim - 50lb/min
I was led to believe that the larger the inducer diameter the more flow (with same exducer) but these numbers seem to make a mockery of that .
How can a 50trim flow more than a 57 trim ?
#814
Turbocharger Guru
Thread Starter
Question for Bryan :
When you look at different T04e compressor wheels available there seems to be inconsistencies in the flow charts .
IE
maximum flow
50 trim - 48lb/min
54 trim - 45lb/min
57 trim - 44lb/min
60 trim - 50lb/min
I was led to believe that the larger the inducer diameter the more flow (with same exducer) but these numbers seem to make a mockery of that .
How can a 50trim flow more than a 57 trim ?
When you look at different T04e compressor wheels available there seems to be inconsistencies in the flow charts .
IE
maximum flow
50 trim - 48lb/min
54 trim - 45lb/min
57 trim - 44lb/min
60 trim - 50lb/min
I was led to believe that the larger the inducer diameter the more flow (with same exducer) but these numbers seem to make a mockery of that .
How can a 50trim flow more than a 57 trim ?
The 50 trim is more aggressive in design. The compressor wheel is actually taller than the 54-60 trims. More blade area usually fits more volume. So things like tip height and the overall height play a major roll in how each compressor flows.
I had a 64mm inducer compressor on my FD one time from some Schwitzer turbo. I thought it would work out nice compared to the 62-1, but the most I could get out of it was 409 RWHP. That was at 20 PSI lol. The 60mm 60-1 would out perform that at 16 psi. Some compressor wheels just don't do well in certain applications. Its more of a trial and error kind of thing to find the right combination.
The 54/57/60 trims are very popular for people with SOHC 4 bangers that have restrictive heads and cams. Even the entry level turbo for the Grand National is a TA49 which is a 60 trim compressor. People dip into the 11's with a stock heads and cam GN, but that is pushing it to the limits. My 87 GN went a 7.28 in the 1/8, but it fell dead after that lol.
Also the 50 trim isn't 50mm inducer. I will have to check, but if I can remember the inducer is 54mm.
Bryan
#820
Turbocharger Guru
Thread Starter
You will not know what a compressor will do in all aspects until you experience it behind the wheel. Math gives you an idea what will work and what won't but still you don't know exactly how compatable it is as a total package.
I like telling people a certain turbocharger gets 20 psi by 4500 RPM, makes peak TQ at 6800 RPM, 485 RWHP peak, and averages 430 RWHP throughout the power band. A compressor map doesn't give you those facts.
I like telling people a certain turbocharger gets 20 psi by 4500 RPM, makes peak TQ at 6800 RPM, 485 RWHP peak, and averages 430 RWHP throughout the power band. A compressor map doesn't give you those facts.
#822
Turbocharger Guru
Thread Starter
Jeff. there is more than one part of a turbocharger that can effect the compressor and how it works in the car. A compressor map cant tell you the whole story on a turbocharger. There are too many variables associated with the engine that can drastically change spool up. Compressor maps don't have any calculations for turbine housing size, turbine wheel changes, or if you change your manifold runner lengths ect. You must know exactly what the Volumetric Efficiency of the engine in order to get close but it all depends on the whole package. That VE changes when you change port timing, change turbine housings, change up intake manifolds, exhaust manifolds ect. Too many variables that can cause flow improvements of the engine or flow restrictions....
#823
Banned
iTrader: (3)
How the car performs is affected by many things, but the turbo's compressor does exactly the same thing, every time.
Uh, yes they do. They are called turbine maps. They work just like the compressor maps.
I respect the trial-and-error method that you employ, but most of your time is wasted this way.
ALL of the differences you describe in different applications with different turbos can be completely quantified by using the provided documentation and applying the math.
Turbo manufacturers are not stupid. The data they provide is extremely well acquired.
#824
Turbocharger Guru
Thread Starter
I agree with you about the absolute in both the turbine and compressor maps. The variables start with longer/shorter diffuser lengths and larger/smaller a/r's around the compressor/turbine wheels. In application all the variables surrounding the turbine and compressor wheels will effect how it works in the car. Thats where I was trying to get at pretty much this whole time. Same way engine changes.
A lot of the stuff that we do with ported wankel engines isn't bench tested so we don't know the exact calculations for VE. Most of it is estimated or going off of a basic formula. How can you be exact with calculations when there are so many variables?
I respect the trial-and-error method that you employ, but most of your time is wasted this way.
ALL of the differences you describe in different applications with different turbos can be completely quantified by using the provided documentation and applying the math.
Turbo manufacturers are not stupid. The data they provide is extremely well acquired.
ALL of the differences you describe in different applications with different turbos can be completely quantified by using the provided documentation and applying the math.
Turbo manufacturers are not stupid. The data they provide is extremely well acquired.
Garrett is beyond me. I just apply their products to factory production turbochargers.
Thanks for the respect. I wouldn't have a business right now if it weren't for trial and error. I don't consider any of it a waste of time.
What I base everything on is improvement on weak points in a factory turbocharger. When issues pop up like the boost fall off and flow restriction problem, you have to push through and fix the problems. I don't want to offer a product that doesn't work...
Last edited by Bryan@BNR; 06-02-2010 at 10:13 PM.