Bryan@BNR

Hey Paul.

The compressor and turbine maps are made w/o housings statically. Everything surrounding the compressor/turbine are variables that can be changed.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

No, that isn't true.

They provide compressor and turbine maps in their designated housings and it is measured dynamically - it is not a "theoretical" value.

Bryan@BNR

double poster

Bryan@BNR

Static pressure is made in the diffuser length and the Dynamic pressure is made in the volutes. If it were made dynamically then yes, the maps are made with housings. I have a good friend that is in with Garrett and he may have misled me but he says they are static flowed to get the compressor map.

Which housing was the T4 comrpessor wheels put in?

T04B .50 a/r
T04B .60 a/r
T04B .70 a/r
T04B .85 a/r

T04E .50 a/r
T04E .60 a/r
T04E .70 a/r

T04S .55 a/r
T04S .70 a/r

T04S04 .55 a/r

Would a housing change be a "Variable"? I know when I change up a compressor housing, it makes a noticable change in delivery.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

They have maps for all of the of the modern housings.
For the "old fashioned" stuff, you have to dig around a bit, but they are out there.
A compressor wheel can't have a flow map without a housing. Otherwise, it would just be a fan!

I'm not totally sure what you are talking about here.
There is only "dynamic" pressure in a turbo system. If the pressure goes "static", the compressor will stall. Do you mean stall pressure and surge?

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

anyhoo - the Greddy 90deg off the turbo is a restriction and definately not part of the design like a deluded MM seems to think .

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

OMG. Really? Are you just refusing to check up on this stuff?
What is a restriction? What is pressure? What is flow? Where do they go when they intersect?
What is a volute? What is a diffuser? How do they work?

The only person that is deluded here is you and I've about had it with your f-ed up, stupid ****. Seriously.
Go away, read up and come back. This place has enough sheep and we don't really need any more retarded wolves.

yomomspimp06

with a less degree of a bend the air would flow easier wouldn't it? He's not saying it's a lower amount of air from passing through(i think), but the turbo does have to work harder to push the air through that bend versus something with a straighter design....

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Turbos don't "work harder".
THEY ACCELERATE AIR MOLECULES. That's it.

The ability of the VOLUTE to convert that velocity into pressure is mitigated by the adiabatic efficiency of the compressor assembly (wheel and housing). It doesn't care how "hard" it is to do that. The conversion has to occur somewhere - it doesn't really matter if it is at the discharge or the throttle.

yomomspimp06

so then having that bend means nothing? NOTHING at all? I find that hard to believe, but I'm not the as knowledgeable with this stuff. I'm still learning

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

No .
I'm just going to call Bullshit on this suggestion of yours that putting a 90deg bend on the turbo outlet (as per the Greddy setup) is good design and let you decide whether you want to find the relevant info to prove that you are correct or not .

Maybe it isn't that big of a deal as far as inhibiting the turbos output - I don't really know . But I'm damed sure that , if you were designing the kit for high hp from scratch , you would at the very least put a much larger radius bend in there .

Frosty288

Is it possible that the clipped turbine in the BNR upgrade is limiting the maximum amount of boost achievable? (This isn't in connection with the above discussion..)

I guess the amount of power hasn't been ultimately decided as boost pressures that people have been running have been near 9psi on the BNR upgrade, when it looks like 14-15 is what it needs to make the power being claimed.

I don't know how much of the turbine is clipped but it doesn't seem like boost control is a huge issue if the maximum we're going to see is nearly the amount that we want. As long as the spring is correct and a decent boost controller plumbed up, I don't see boost creep being an issue. After enlarging the wheel it seems you'd want all the turbine you can get, because at least the way I see it, the 'face value' difference in size (in mm) between the turbine and the compressor, will give you a very rough estimate on capable power and spool.

I'm really really hoping the BNR upgrade is a good one. No doubt on the care and obvious benefits of the water cooled CHRA, but hopefully power wise as well.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

/\ Brian has already mentioned that 350whp is about the limit of the turbine housing so there is that limitation . We discussed the clipping aspect a while back and if anything the clip should assist in getting peak output .

Bryan@BNR

The restriction isn't the turbine wheel or the clip. I have customers making 500 to 4 wheels with that turbine wheel. Should be enough turbine for 375-400 rotary WHP if the exhaust housing is efficient enough to flow the volume.

RotaryMachineRx

iTrader: (1)

There's enough room for that honkin thing and at that angle?

Rocketman1976

Is there a dyno for the BNR upgrade? I looked through the Highest Horsepower Dyno's thread and didn't see it.

I live only about 2 1/2 hours from RX7 Store so this is one of my more stand out options, but I would like to get some more detail about it.

I read that entire thread where in the end the shop was saying the Greddy intercooler was a restriction on the flow, and it just ended with that.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

that is what most of the argument in this thread is about - no-one has produced the numbers we would expect to see yet .
I would be more inclined to go for the 50trim upgrade from what I've seen here .

SC-ed

It's sooo quiet in here. I need a GReddy upgrade now and still haven't decided which road to go - the easy one, but not proven yet(BNR), or the hard one, but proven (MM-like).
I'm not convinced the problem is the GReddy IC. As far as I know non of the 3071R guys have IC flow problems.
Am I wrong...?

RotaryMachineRx

iTrader: (1)

^ I believe your right people havent complained about the IC with the GT3071R but that turbo flows a hell of alot more air than the GReddy and I don't think alot of different IC's have been tried out, problem with bigger IC's is that you don't want to block more airlfow to the Rad than you have to

SC-ed

The question for me is what's the problem with the BNR upgrade that it can't do the job as advertised? Or it's just a lack of user reports.
I don't care for dyno numbers, just want to convince myself it flows as it has to.
Reading this thread two times, both times I was so excited and... the last few pages got me thinking something's not right. Is it the design or what? Looks good on paper (and talking) but still nobody got it to work properly.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

wankelbolt

iTrader: (21)

^ Guess that's a "7" mount. :-)

Now show us the big hole you hogged in your hood...


And find me that driver's side hard pipe, please!

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

I wouldn't really use "hogged" as the descriptor.





One could simply use the Seibon vented hood to the same effect.

Here is a better pic of the IC:



All I've been able to come up with so far is the pipe for the other side.
I'm still looking, but I have over 500 pounds of aluminum pipe I've been sorting through over here as I organize the operation.

RotaryMachineRx

iTrader: (1)

^ Yeah Jeff I've seen your IC mount before but I also know you have undisclosed engine specs. What I meant was that not alot of people have tried many different intercoolers... it is most common to see the GReddy FMIC..... I guess you have zero problems with IC blocking airflow to your rad though lol

ShellDude

iTrader: (12)

That intercooler setup looks exactly like a 7 I saw over the weekend ... except he had two air intakes too