Pettit Super Charger Owners
08-22-2008, 12:28 PM
#2977
Speaking of reading comprehension, how's that small fortune you've made off of the Pettit's mistakes treating you? I hope you didn't invest it in real-estate or something, that housing market's been trending a tad downwards lately...
Originally Posted by Bastage
Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
As far as bias goes - why would I be biased against Pettit?
I'm making a small fortune on them. If they suddenly got their act together, I wouldn't be in such a position.
Just think about that before you fly off the handle again.
I'm making a small fortune on them. If they suddenly got their act together, I wouldn't be in such a position.
Just think about that before you fly off the handle again.
08-22-2008, 12:39 PM
#2978
That's because I refuse to publicize some PMs I receive from time to time. The arrogance in them is astounding.
08-22-2008, 12:39 PM
#2980
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These arguments could ALL be avoided if all forum vendors would stay out of other forum vendor's sections- especially the ones they have issues with. If this continues, it will be made an official forum guideline. We cannot have vendors fighting amongst themselves. You are all expected to follow the same code of conduct as everyone else.
08-22-2008, 12:53 PM
#2984
These arguments could ALL be avoided if all forum vendors would stay out of other forum vendor's sections- especially the ones they have issues with. If this continues, it will be made an official forum guideline. We cannot have vendors fighting amongst themselves. You are all expected to follow the same code of conduct as everyone else.
08-22-2008, 12:58 PM
#2986
....and you are....so eff off and get back to work, Slave!
Everybody else knows where I and BHR stand so I will simply unsub.
Everybody else knows where I and BHR stand so I will simply unsub.
Last edited by Charles R. Hill; 08-22-2008 at 01:02 PM.
08-22-2008, 01:26 PM
#2988
jersey fresh
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Then why did I just tell Cam the last time we spoke that I am leaning toward a Pettit S/C for my own car? Why do I also often suggest to people that they NOT buy my radiator when they, in fact, live in a climate where they won't be taxing the cooling system? Why did I just announce the halting of sales of my clutches due to a disengagement issue until the problem is resolved? Would ANY other vendor on this forum be so open and honest about what happens behind-the-scenes? Profits as a primary motive is an accusation that is wholly and patently ill-conceived.
The reason I, and by extension Jeff, offer the things we do is in a pursuit to make improvements in what is offered in the aftermarket. TANGIBLE improvements that have actually been tested on our own cars and the race cars that BHR sponsors. At the very least, our criticisms about product offerings in the market are out in the open for everybody to discuss. BHR's competitors are not so brave and have decided to lie about the power developed by the MM/BHR 3071 kit and the benefits of the Yukon coil kit. Pussies. Further, BHR actually offers warranties on its products! So much so that I can't even discuss it until after the part is purchased lest I open myself up to manipulations by idiots. BHR is also the ONLY vendor on this forum that openly invites challenges, criticisms, and input on its own products, in its own threads, from anybody who wishes to express themselves regarding our product.
I have been on this forum for nearly 5 years helping even those who don't particularly care for me much to make better-informed decisions regarding modding their cars and it often times has COST me money to do so. Even moreso with Jeff.
If our personal involvement and the kind of help we offer, as tenuous as it can sometimes become, isn't enough then I guess it's time other options are sought by all parties involved.
The reason I, and by extension Jeff, offer the things we do is in a pursuit to make improvements in what is offered in the aftermarket. TANGIBLE improvements that have actually been tested on our own cars and the race cars that BHR sponsors. At the very least, our criticisms about product offerings in the market are out in the open for everybody to discuss. BHR's competitors are not so brave and have decided to lie about the power developed by the MM/BHR 3071 kit and the benefits of the Yukon coil kit. Pussies. Further, BHR actually offers warranties on its products! So much so that I can't even discuss it until after the part is purchased lest I open myself up to manipulations by idiots. BHR is also the ONLY vendor on this forum that openly invites challenges, criticisms, and input on its own products, in its own threads, from anybody who wishes to express themselves regarding our product.
I have been on this forum for nearly 5 years helping even those who don't particularly care for me much to make better-informed decisions regarding modding their cars and it often times has COST me money to do so. Even moreso with Jeff.
If our personal involvement and the kind of help we offer, as tenuous as it can sometimes become, isn't enough then I guess it's time other options are sought by all parties involved.
08-22-2008, 02:14 PM
#2989
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The reason for my statement was based on the mindset people will retain after reading the thread. The feeling I received was suspicion, it just felt weird to see an argument in nearly every turbo product thread outside of BHR's product. I am not questioning the product itself, but merely the human side of the discussion. It just seems way too aggressive.
THAT however, is another story.
I've lurked the pettit thread for quite a while and I'm sure people would call me a troll for expressing my opinion but here is what I have come to believe as an RX8 owner and an experienced member of the automotive community.
Show me the money!
The pettit supercharger itself is a fantastic product. It's well built, well put together, and no doubt has the capability to produce the power it claims. MY issue and the issue of many others is that this kit is advertised as "complete" upon purchase when it's anything but complete.
There is no uniformity with the kit as I've seen several Pettit installs and they all look totally different. I won't re-hash the issues with the kit as they have been well covered here. The primary aspect is the kit isn't complete...not by a long shot.
What you are seeing, are people paying GOOD money for this kit and then having to invest thousands more in water/meth, MAF tube fabrications, engine managment, a new heat exchanger etc. By the time you're done, you've invested tons of cash and still you're making less power than you would have with a modest turbo upgrade.
Then, to make matters worse...I have not seen one official pettit car do anything with this kit other than fly down the street with a christmas tree of dash lights. Those of us helping develope products here in AZ are out testing these products on OUR cars. Not only that, but we're on the race track in 105+ degree heat pushing these products to their limits and past them in some cases. Then we fix what was broken and make it better.
This goes beyond Pettit, but I don't see ANY RX8 vendors doing this other than BHR. I don't see anyone from other vendors out doing local race events, time attacks, or other events to showcase their products and put their money where their mouth is.
All I see are RX8's in the shop rev'ing their motors and going SEE IT WORKS!
At the end of the day I hear a lot of "well I'm happy and that's all that matters" which is fine for some people out there. Still, I think that's a poor cop-out from having to prove yourself.
Everything with cars is competitive and if you are going to make challanges against someone elses ride, shop, or product you better be prepared to back them up with your own stuff.
We are putting our stuff to the test, producing numbers and backing up claims. We expect no less from anyone else.
08-22-2008, 02:31 PM
#2990
Not for nothing Flash, but I have seen more information about the Pettit guys auto-crossing their cars than I have heard about BHR doing anything other than overheating in traffic. So what does that mean? It just means that you haven't read every Pettit thread and I haven't read all the BHR information. So don't dump on the Pettit guys for not using their kits because you haven't read where they have.
Second, kits undergo revisions. The fact that components of the kit have changed with time (presumably for the better) is a net positive. It is better to be responsive to the shortcomings of your products than it is to be too conceited or stubborn to realize that nothing ever transfers from prototype to production flawlessly. I know a guy up here in NJ who bought the kit, installed it himself, got a couple flash revisions and is super happy with it. Actually, of the 4 Petit SC I have seen, all have had happy owners. I've never seen a BHR turbo kit in person. Personal experience on a national scope doesn't amount to a large enough sample to really draw any conclusions.
Some people want to make this into a turbo vs. SC thing. Some people want to make this into an AZ people vs. FL people thing. The truth is it's just a bunch of dickwagging now. All the meaningful technical observations have been cast aside in favor of trash talking everyone else. It would be nicer if everyone lived in the same town and you could trash talk each other in person over a beer or two. It would be much less belligerent.
Second, kits undergo revisions. The fact that components of the kit have changed with time (presumably for the better) is a net positive. It is better to be responsive to the shortcomings of your products than it is to be too conceited or stubborn to realize that nothing ever transfers from prototype to production flawlessly. I know a guy up here in NJ who bought the kit, installed it himself, got a couple flash revisions and is super happy with it. Actually, of the 4 Petit SC I have seen, all have had happy owners. I've never seen a BHR turbo kit in person. Personal experience on a national scope doesn't amount to a large enough sample to really draw any conclusions.
Some people want to make this into a turbo vs. SC thing. Some people want to make this into an AZ people vs. FL people thing. The truth is it's just a bunch of dickwagging now. All the meaningful technical observations have been cast aside in favor of trash talking everyone else. It would be nicer if everyone lived in the same town and you could trash talk each other in person over a beer or two. It would be much less belligerent.
08-22-2008, 02:40 PM
#2991
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The interesting thing is that people have threatened to make comments regarding the turbo kit offered by MM and BHR yet all I've seen are comments saying "your turbo doesn't flow enough" yet the people making that claim have poor evidence to back up their own product.
THAT however, is another story.
I've lurked the pettit thread for quite a while and I'm sure people would call me a troll for expressing my opinion but here is what I have come to believe as an RX8 owner and an experienced member of the automotive community.
Show me the money!
The pettit supercharger itself is a fantastic product. It's well built, well put together, and no doubt has the capability to produce the power it claims. MY issue and the issue of many others is that this kit is advertised as "complete" upon purchase when it's anything but complete.
There is no uniformity with the kit as I've seen several Pettit installs and they all look totally different. I won't re-hash the issues with the kit as they have been well covered here. The primary aspect is the kit isn't complete...not by a long shot.
What you are seeing, are people paying GOOD money for this kit and then having to invest thousands more in water/meth, MAF tube fabrications, engine managment, a new heat exchanger etc. By the time you're done, you've invested tons of cash and still you're making less power than you would have with a modest turbo upgrade.
Then, to make matters worse...I have not seen one official pettit car do anything with this kit other than fly down the street with a christmas tree of dash lights. Those of us helping develope products here in AZ are out testing these products on OUR cars. Not only that, but we're on the race track in 105+ degree heat pushing these products to their limits and past them in some cases. Then we fix what was broken and make it better.
This goes beyond Pettit, but I don't see ANY RX8 vendors doing this other than BHR. I don't see anyone from other vendors out doing local race events, time attacks, or other events to showcase their products and put their money where their mouth is.
All I see are RX8's in the shop rev'ing their motors and going SEE IT WORKS!
At the end of the day I hear a lot of "well I'm happy and that's all that matters" which is fine for some people out there. Still, I think that's a poor cop-out from having to prove yourself.
Everything with cars is competitive and if you are going to make challanges against someone elses ride, shop, or product you better be prepared to back them up with your own stuff.
We are putting our stuff to the test, producing numbers and backing up claims. We expect no less from anyone else.
THAT however, is another story.
I've lurked the pettit thread for quite a while and I'm sure people would call me a troll for expressing my opinion but here is what I have come to believe as an RX8 owner and an experienced member of the automotive community.
Show me the money!
The pettit supercharger itself is a fantastic product. It's well built, well put together, and no doubt has the capability to produce the power it claims. MY issue and the issue of many others is that this kit is advertised as "complete" upon purchase when it's anything but complete.
There is no uniformity with the kit as I've seen several Pettit installs and they all look totally different. I won't re-hash the issues with the kit as they have been well covered here. The primary aspect is the kit isn't complete...not by a long shot.
What you are seeing, are people paying GOOD money for this kit and then having to invest thousands more in water/meth, MAF tube fabrications, engine managment, a new heat exchanger etc. By the time you're done, you've invested tons of cash and still you're making less power than you would have with a modest turbo upgrade.
Then, to make matters worse...I have not seen one official pettit car do anything with this kit other than fly down the street with a christmas tree of dash lights. Those of us helping develope products here in AZ are out testing these products on OUR cars. Not only that, but we're on the race track in 105+ degree heat pushing these products to their limits and past them in some cases. Then we fix what was broken and make it better.
This goes beyond Pettit, but I don't see ANY RX8 vendors doing this other than BHR. I don't see anyone from other vendors out doing local race events, time attacks, or other events to showcase their products and put their money where their mouth is.
All I see are RX8's in the shop rev'ing their motors and going SEE IT WORKS!
At the end of the day I hear a lot of "well I'm happy and that's all that matters" which is fine for some people out there. Still, I think that's a poor cop-out from having to prove yourself.
Everything with cars is competitive and if you are going to make challanges against someone elses ride, shop, or product you better be prepared to back them up with your own stuff.
We are putting our stuff to the test, producing numbers and backing up claims. We expect no less from anyone else.
This is kind of funny as those of us that have been in the community before the RX-8 even existed remember the Banzai cars, and that Cam campaigned RX-7 race cars for years in professional circuits, etc...they already have a strong reputation.
btw, that's a quick google search...
http://www.dragtimes.com/Mazda-RX-8-Timeslip-4201.html
08-22-2008, 02:42 PM
#2992
It's Not Easy Being Green
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You can all head up to Ohio for a weekend and show off your cars. We have cheap beer, no hurricanes, and no overheating (sure it's 95 today but it's also 100% humidity!). Mid-Ohio's a great course or we'll all be at Beaver Run in October (not QUITE Ohio). Plus there's almost no one with turbos or superchargers so you don't have to worry about the angst.
08-22-2008, 02:50 PM
#2993
Not for nothing Flash, but I have seen more information about the Pettit guys auto-crossing their cars than I have heard about BHR doing anything other than overheating in traffic. So what does that mean? It just means that you haven't read every Pettit thread and I haven't read all the BHR information. So don't dump on the Pettit guys for not using their kits because you haven't read where they have.
Second, kits undergo revisions. The fact that components of the kit have changed with time (presumably for the better) is a net positive. It is better to be responsive to the shortcomings of your products than it is to be too conceited or stubborn to realize that nothing ever transfers from prototype to production flawlessly. I know a guy up here in NJ who bought the kit, installed it himself, got a couple flash revisions and is super happy with it. Actually, of the 4 Petit SC I have seen, all have had happy owners. I've never seen a BHR turbo kit in person. Personal experience on a national scope doesn't amount to a large enough sample to really draw any conclusions.
Some people want to make this into a turbo vs. SC thing. Some people want to make this into an AZ people vs. FL people thing. The truth is it's just a bunch of dickwagging now. All the meaningful technical observations have been cast aside in favor of trash talking everyone else. It would be nicer if everyone lived in the same town and you could trash talk each other in person over a beer or two. It would be much less belligerent.
Second, kits undergo revisions. The fact that components of the kit have changed with time (presumably for the better) is a net positive. It is better to be responsive to the shortcomings of your products than it is to be too conceited or stubborn to realize that nothing ever transfers from prototype to production flawlessly. I know a guy up here in NJ who bought the kit, installed it himself, got a couple flash revisions and is super happy with it. Actually, of the 4 Petit SC I have seen, all have had happy owners. I've never seen a BHR turbo kit in person. Personal experience on a national scope doesn't amount to a large enough sample to really draw any conclusions.
Some people want to make this into a turbo vs. SC thing. Some people want to make this into an AZ people vs. FL people thing. The truth is it's just a bunch of dickwagging now. All the meaningful technical observations have been cast aside in favor of trash talking everyone else. It would be nicer if everyone lived in the same town and you could trash talk each other in person over a beer or two. It would be much less belligerent.
For those of you who haven't seen them, there are several youtube videos of Pettit RX-8's autocrossing. Denny probably has some videos of himself road racing, as does Roland I'm sure. Add to that the drive Cam and I took with our cars up to the Deal's Gap Rotary Rally back in April, and Moon's drive up to some other event in Pennsylvania last year and you've got about 9000 combined miles of us driving just to show off our cars' supercharger setups (ok, also for pleasure too, following a champion race car driver through the Dragon is an experience I will never forget).
Nevermind the local events Juan, Norman, and myself have gone to (where we've only ever seen one turboed RX-8). There's one on Sunday the 31st in Orlando (see Champion motorsports) and Juan, Cam, and myself will be there with our cars, and Cam will be giving test rides. As for R&D, see my sig and you see why Cam went with the S/C instead of the turbo.
as for this stuff:
There is no uniformity with the kit as I've seen several Pettit installs and they all look totally different. I won't re-hash the issues with the kit as they have been well covered here. The primary aspect is the kit isn't complete...not by a long shot.
What you are seeing, are people paying GOOD money for this kit and then having to invest thousands more in water/meth, MAF tube fabrications, engine managment, a new heat exchanger etc. By the time you're done, you've invested tons of cash and still you're making less power than you would have with a modest turbo upgrade.
What you are seeing, are people paying GOOD money for this kit and then having to invest thousands more in water/meth, MAF tube fabrications, engine managment, a new heat exchanger etc. By the time you're done, you've invested tons of cash and still you're making less power than you would have with a modest turbo upgrade.
MAF tube fabrications: Initially there was some of that going on, but that's been completely resolved. We didn't use the MAF initially since the Interceptor-X was being used for fuel management.
Engine management: has been resolved since we stopped using the Int-X, back in November for most of us.
Heat exchanger: I'm still running the same heat exchanger (as are most of us). Juan has experimented with the BHR and a custom one, but I'm not sure what his findings are. A few others may have bought or are testing the BHR exchanger.
Methanol injection: I installed W/M injection last month, but I went about 14000 miles without it (and several autocross/drag race days). It's not a necessary upgrade, but if you like to drag race and autocross in 95-100 degree heat, it's a nice and relatively cheap addition (especially if you buy it from Charles). I think Jeff has this on his car too.
Last edited by Bastage; 08-22-2008 at 03:08 PM.
08-22-2008, 02:51 PM
#2994
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+1
You can all head up to Ohio for a weekend and show off your cars. We have cheap beer, no hurricanes, and no overheating (sure it's 95 today but it's also 100% humidity!). Mid-Ohio's a great course or we'll all be at Beaver Run in October (not QUITE Ohio). Plus there's almost no one with turbos or superchargers so you don't have to worry about the angst.
You can all head up to Ohio for a weekend and show off your cars. We have cheap beer, no hurricanes, and no overheating (sure it's 95 today but it's also 100% humidity!). Mid-Ohio's a great course or we'll all be at Beaver Run in October (not QUITE Ohio). Plus there's almost no one with turbos or superchargers so you don't have to worry about the angst.
08-22-2008, 03:13 PM
#2995
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If you did your homework, you'd find that in original concept there likely would have been wastegate issues.... SOMEONE paid enough attention to catch it, make the necessary changes, and now has NO issues...
ummmm, i'm pretty sure THIS THREAD has lots of pictures, compressor charts, turbine charts, the dyno plot, etc etc etc....
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=133075 yes there is one dyno....
the difference is, the kit represented is sold and marketed to reflect THAT dyno.... if someone does more with it good on them(same as the greddy, marketed at 5-6psi, everyone ran at 9+psi). This isnt a dyno that you have to TRY and put effort forth to achieve like some others.....
if you want more dyno's go look for them.... i know exactly where to find dyno's for roughly half or more of the kit's owners.... you go look.
^^that is EXACTLY the root cause of all the bitching... there are a couple owners who are too incapable/stupid to understand the data being presented and questioned. so instead of staying quiet to allow advancing the discussion, they open their mouths, and immediately bash the "haters" for "hating"..... not all of the S/C guys are like that.... I think the whole T/C-S/C fanboi/clique thing is stupid, but if its gonna happen then they need to control their own.
08-22-2008, 03:16 PM
#2996
Now why did you go and do that? Everyone's getting along so nicely and you gotta go and jab the turbo guys (of which I am one). Can't we all just get along? Or, if not, can't you just unite to pick on the stock rx8s?
Paul - you're 12 hours too late. This thread is all love and carebears now.
Paul - you're 12 hours too late. This thread is all love and carebears now.
Last edited by maxxdamigz; 08-22-2008 at 03:23 PM.
08-22-2008, 03:27 PM
#2998
There has never been a turbo RX-8 at an autocross event at the Martin Sports Car Club, or the Central Florida SCCA Chapter events (which Juan and I go to regularly), and I've never seen any turboed 8's (or even NA 8s) at Moroso or Orlando Speedworld the 5 or 6 times I've gone. The ONLY turboed 8 I've seen in person is MySQL's, and it was parked. It's all geography I guess.
08-22-2008, 03:31 PM
#2999
ummmm, i'm pretty sure no one ever claimed 380whp on 9psi +w/m... rather it was 14 +w/m
If you did your homework, you'd find that in original concept there likely would have been wastegate issues.... SOMEONE paid enough attention to catch it, make the necessary changes, and now has NO issues...
ummmm, i'm pretty sure THIS THREAD has lots of pictures, compressor charts, turbine charts, the dyno plot, etc etc etc....
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=133075 yes there is one dyno....
the difference is, the kit represented is sold and marketed to reflect THAT dyno.... if someone does more with it good on them(same as the greddy, marketed at 5-6psi, everyone ran at 9+psi). This isnt a dyno that you have to TRY and put effort forth to achieve like some others.....
if you want more dyno's go look for them.... i know exactly where to find dyno's for roughly half or more of the kit's owners.... you go look.
^^that is EXACTLY the root cause of all the bitching... there are a couple owners who are too incapable/stupid to understand the data being presented and questioned. so instead of staying quiet to allow advancing the discussion, they open their mouths, and immediately bash the "haters" for "hating"..... not all of the S/C guys are like that.... I think the whole T/C-S/C fanboi/clique thing is stupid, but if its gonna happen then they need to control their own.
If you did your homework, you'd find that in original concept there likely would have been wastegate issues.... SOMEONE paid enough attention to catch it, make the necessary changes, and now has NO issues...
ummmm, i'm pretty sure THIS THREAD has lots of pictures, compressor charts, turbine charts, the dyno plot, etc etc etc....
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=133075 yes there is one dyno....
the difference is, the kit represented is sold and marketed to reflect THAT dyno.... if someone does more with it good on them(same as the greddy, marketed at 5-6psi, everyone ran at 9+psi). This isnt a dyno that you have to TRY and put effort forth to achieve like some others.....
if you want more dyno's go look for them.... i know exactly where to find dyno's for roughly half or more of the kit's owners.... you go look.
^^that is EXACTLY the root cause of all the bitching... there are a couple owners who are too incapable/stupid to understand the data being presented and questioned. so instead of staying quiet to allow advancing the discussion, they open their mouths, and immediately bash the "haters" for "hating"..... not all of the S/C guys are like that.... I think the whole T/C-S/C fanboi/clique thing is stupid, but if its gonna happen then they need to control their own.
Actually, he claimed a 20% hp increase with w/m injection. If you do the math, that's 316 hp *1.2 == ~380 hp
That's why I called B.S.
But I think we're passed that now. Thanks for your input, man.
08-22-2008, 03:38 PM
#3000
FL must be boring. Within maybe 50 miles of me, there are at least 10 greddy turbos, 1 or 2 pettit SC, 2 Esmeril turbo cars, 1 (soon to be 2 but he might not be within 50 miles) Mazsport turbo cars, and a couple customs. These are cars I know of. The number for FI 8s in the area is like 3 to 4 times that. I've been getting people yelling at me on the highway about how their other car is a turbo/SC 8 or they are looking at XYZ kit.