DOMINION

Have you guys seen this li'll bad boy?

http://www.rotormaster.com.au/subPage.asp?cid=50

The Rotor Master ProCharged RX8:

Bolt on ProCharger Systems are now available for the 13B Renesis powered RX8 with results that provide a 70-100% power gain in the Mazda's performance.
After much research & further development to transform the RX8 Renesis Rotary Engine's power output, the crew @ Rotor Master are estatic with the results of their recently completed ProCharged RX8 Kit.
Specifications:

> Coolest charge air temperatures for maximum power and engine reliability
> Highly efficient C2 ProCharger
> Rigid 6061 T-6 CNC machined brackets
> Patented self-contained technology eliminates need to punch a hole in your oil pan
> Patented friction reduction drive for least parasitic load and greatest durability
> Helixed 7071 T-6 billet impeller
> Highly effective and high flowing DNA Motorsport air-to-air intercooler system for easy installation
> PowerMod - ProSequential advanced engine management system
> Complete bolt-on system
> No bodywork cutting required
> OEM fit and finish
> Factory smooth driveability for daily use

Priced at AUS $11,900 in boxed form (ready to install) the SuperCharger kit is modest value with a 200+ kW rear wheel result with a standard exhaust system ensuring noise maintained at an appropriate level.

Some other G rides they tuned an put out
http://www.rotormaster.com.au/subPage.asp?cid=35

expo1

$11,900 Australian Dollar = $8,688.31 US Dollar

Add to that tuning and installation and the sound of this mod gets a little lower.

lethologica

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-aftermarket-performance-modifications-23/procharger-system-rx-8-ready-80077/
https://www.rx8club.com/australia-new-zealand-forum-37/rotormaster-procharged-rx8-test-drive-75641/

zoom44

only seen it discussed about eleventy-seven times. they also have moved on to a supercharger kit. rotormasters kit was copied but MZ Australia fo rthat Turbo'd car they showed around to the press

Jaguar_MBA

First time I have seen this.... I love the design and placement of the supercharger.... it is so simple a location. Easy to install, easy to work on. very nice. Relocate battery but that is a bonus too.

timbo

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here, but I have driven both the Rotor Master car (see https://www.rx8club.com/australia-new-zealand-forum-37/test-drive-dnamotorsport-rotor-master-procharger-equipped-8-a-89756/) and the MA car, and they have very different characteristics.

Rotor Master started off with a T/C. As you may be aware, there is a problem finding engine space for T/Cs of any size and to do so may require modifying the engine mounts. This is a no no in Australia if you want to get the kit certified (easily) by registration authorities, so for that reason and others, Rotor Master then changed to the Pro Charger SC. This kit gives an good boost across the rev range, as mentioned in my review, and gives the car the feel of power across the range you wish it had had from the start.

Details of the MA car are sketchier -- no-one's saying anything, NDAs abound but I do know it has a Garrett ball bearing based TC and now has "a larger one" than originally fitted (I think MA have actually prepared at least 3 and possibly 4 of these cars). Relative to the Rotor Master car, the MA car exhibits typical TC mannersisms -- not much until 3K, then the fire lights. This car feels really strong, but is so, so stealth.

As to which to choose? Well, depends on your needs as they both have very different characteristics. The RM car is a great daily drive; the MA car would be great for track work (but drives well, too)

zoom44

i was saying that MA originally copied the RM TC kit as it was reported from several sources tha tMA had a full day of access to the RM TC car. i was also saying that RM has moved from TC to SC

Speedrx8er

good lord! that is pricy. I think procharger universal Kit cost alittle over 3,000+ ....
which I think they used for their car

dnaMotorsport

Hello All,

Our ProCharger kit is a complete ground up design (not a copy of the universal kit), with daily-driveability and reliability being the main focus. The kit includes complete bolt-on kit and the PowerMod engine management system.

Check out our website for more info. Also check out the 'about us' section to see how we design ProCharger systems. There is a nice picture (3D CAD model) of the RX-8 ProCharger system.

The Australian price will not reflect the US pricing when released. Once we are happy with the testing it will be released to the US and Europen markets.

Thank You.

http://www.dnamotorsport.com

SC-ed

dnaMotrsport
Welcome

Can you explain this about the PowerMod advantages:

*Does NOT affect standard knock sensing, closed-loop fuel control or idle speed control

timbo

I can vouch for the set up DNA has to develop these kits. "State of the art" is cliché, but very accurate, with full CAD, precision digitisation and NC gear. Ultra-professional and capable, as their products show.

And, no...I have no affiliation at all, other than to have had a tour and test drive

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

I have the powermod & will install & dynotune in the next couple of weeks (waiting on parts from Rx8 store that are taking forever). Will post results once done.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

welcome!!!!!

is it done yet

keep us posted... i like this alot...

beers

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

The PowerMod is a good unit. The "successor" to the TSI unit, for want of a better word. This was formerly known around these parts as the "Ric Shaw" unit.

I would like DNA to explain how they feel the factory PCM's long term fuel trim effects performance in relation to the calibration stored in the PowerMod.

Cheers,
Hymee.

dnaMotorsport

[B]Does NOT affect standard knock sensing
This is for safety reasons. If the factory ECU detects any detonation, it can still continue to do what its programmed to do (such as retard timing) to prevent engine damage.

[B]Closed-loop fuel control, idle speed control
Factory ECU controls fuel to determine the optimum air/fuel ratio to keep the catalytic converter safe. Same for idle speed motor.


We had one of our cars clock over 20,000km and when we tested on the dyno the AFR was still the same and performance was not affected. Once the PowerMod is tuned properly (at the time of install) you can forget about it, even for long term.

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Yep - your answers to SC-ed are spot on.

Ok then, what was the Long Term Fuel Trim when you tuned it, and what was it 20,000 km later? I know it changes over time. When you disconnect the ECU from power, the LTFT is reset to zero. What scan tool are you using, by the way. I'm sure I can send one down to Rad for you to have a play with.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

BTW - The reasons knock control and idle stuff are partly why I have a lot of faith in the TSI/PowerMod. It is because it is still letting the factory PCM control things, and then adjusts fuelling / timing based on user input (tune-up). I wrote a fair bit about this over 2 years ago when we first put the TSI on my RX8. I'd have to look up that thread. The PowerMod has some more added to it since then (i.e. more injectors) I believe.

Cheers,
Hymee.

dnaMotorsport

We don't have this info from the old car. Instead of telling you the wrong thing, we will check the current value from our car (when we get a chance) and let you know.

We use Snap-On MODIS Diagnostic System.

I know you have spent a lot of time with the old TSI, so you would know a lot more about it than most. Thanks for the vote of confidence.

I am sure most would observe that majority of complaints regarding vehicles, performance parts or Forced Induction system come down to the management systems used. As you probably know we now use either the PowerMod (mostly for street) or Motec (mostly for racing) on ALL vehicles we work on. Both of these management systems give us confidence that we hear from our customers only when they want a service or when they want more power, rather than with any problems.

Both are great examples of Aussie ingenuity, we are proud to note.

SC-ed

I know what it means and what is it for. But I don't get it.
QUOTE from your site:
"PowerMod takes full control of ignition timing and fuel injection, to get 'the perfect tune'."
The PCM detects a detonation and then what? It doesn't control fuel and timing anymore.
Am I missing something here?

dnaMotorsport

Let me try simplify this as much as possible. Hopefully I can make more sense this way.

Why do you need an aftermarket engine management system when there is a highly advanced system from Mazda designed specifically to run the RX-8? Why don’t we just leave the factory computer to control the fuelling and ignition needs for the forced induction system? Well, the factory management system can run the car to a certain extent. You just need the aftermarket unit to ONLY take over what the factory unit cannot do. That makes sense right?

Now, since the factory computer is unaware of the extra air being forced into the motor, you need to add extra fuel and ignition to make the extra power. So, the aftermarket unit can be tuned based on user input (ie. throttle). PowerMod then takes full control over the fuel and ignition to make the power, based on the tuning.

The factory system’s sensors will detect any (potential) harm to the engine and will try to act on it. Since the PowerMod is ‘intercepting’ necessary signals from the factory system, it can then allow the factory system’s action (ie. retard timing) to take place. This way both the factory system and the PowerMod can work together to make maximum power while running the car safely. Best of both worlds really…

Although this is somewhat simplified, I hope you can understand the principle behind it.

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Well explained, dna. Well done.

What people mightn't get is that the PowerMod is controlling the fuel and spark, based on adjusting fuel or ingition by a certain % at different load points. And if the PCM detects knock and takes 5 degrees of timing out, then the engine will see the timing retarded by the same amount. If the PCM is running in closed loop mode, where you don't need to (or want to) have any "PowerMod" adjustments, the fuel is adjusted continuously just like it should be in closed loop. And when the PCM decides to check the sensors by richening the mixture or leaning it out, the test will pass, cause the FIPW being sent by the PCM is still going to the injectors. NB - that assumes such a test wouldn't happen in open loop, which I would be pretty sure it wouldn't!

You will probably find the LTFT doesn't change much over the short to medium term, and in fact if the car has been driven for a while after a reset before it is tuned, and the LTFT is sort of "stable" before the tune, then it will OK for quite some time. So my only concern then is fighting that LTFT adjustment over time. It might even work out OK, as those adjustments are being "determined" only during closed loop operation, not open-loop when the PowerMod is doing it's thing, however, the LTFT is always used as an overal correction factor, to take into account the "individualisms" of the engine.

Cheers,
Hymee.

SC-ed

Now I got it.
I asked b/c PowerMod looks similar to Int-X, which doesn't have this feature(yet?).
Its nice that PowerMod has it.
Basically PowreMod "listen" for any "good" commands coming from the PCM and passes them forward. Like commands for knock retard and closed loop.
Is that correct?
Thanks for the clarification.

SC-ed

According to some measured data posted in this forum the car is running in closed loop and checks the AFR below
6,200rpm in 1st gear:
5,500rpm in 2nd gear:
4,800rpm in 3rd gear:
4th gear and up - same as 3rd.
Assuming we have boost below these RPM's and having the car tuned for safe AFR at 12's(example), the PCM will try to "fix" the AFR and we will lose the tune over time.
Of course this is truth if I'm correct about the "good" PCM commands in my above post.
How PowerMod fights this?

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

DNA
Reading the manual - I'm pretty sure you can lock out closed loop down to a user definable rpm & throttle position - is this right ? What have you done with the N/A cars you have tuned so far ?

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Brettus,

All you need to do is leave the fuel and timing adjustments at 0% at all of the load points (RPM/TPS) where closed loop is in operation. This can be determined 2 ways - using a scan tool (such as the obvious ) or watching the Lambda.

Cheers,
Hymee.