lolachampcar

It looks like I’ll be moving forward with a nitrous controller for certain Bosch ECUs. Given my experience with the RX-8, I think it would be a prime candidate for this type of system.

The Bosch MAF based systems I’m working with are perfectly capable of adjusting mixture for the increased mass of the nitrous and the resulting lower inlet air temperature from the nitrous vaporization. I suspect the RX-8 will do a similarly good job of accommodating a dry shot. Given that the RX-8 has over 300hp of fuel delivery capability without modifying the fuel or intake system (I've seen this with my own eyes on over twenty cars), I would think the nitrous installation would be both simple and offer the best horsepower to cost ratio (provided you’re a nitrous fan, of course).

The Bosch system is comprised of the controller, a bottle, a solenoid and sufficient tubing to get the nitrous to the intake inlets. Connections consist of power and a two wire jumper to the CAN bus. The nitrous can be staged based on throttle position, load and RPM. Mixture is monitored and nitrous is decreased if the engine starts to run lean. In addition, the ABS and suspension modules are monitored and nitrous is adjusted for traction control events and position of the “sport” mode button. Some of that may be transferable over to the RX-8.

The Bosch systems have sufficient head room in the stock mapping to accommodate 100hp of nitrous. The RX-8 will need its load axis extended to allow for dry nitrous (I've got this done but just wanted to note it here) .

I am looking for one or more very capable tuners who work with nitrous and would like a controller for the RX-8. Any ideas?

Thanks, Bill

lolachampcar

Oh, I forgot to add that the controller will have data logging and can be programmed with either a laptop or one of these GPS Navigation CE devices....

rotarenvy

very cool! I guess you don't need to tap the fuel line in this type of installation?

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

let me make sure i understand you here.... you are talking about using a Bosch ECU because of the nitrous controller options availible for it?

rotarenvy

I think he is just using the bosch as an example of what is possible and making a system for the 8's ecu.

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

ok, that makes MUCH more sense...

do it dude, someone needs to.

kersh4w

iTrader: (3)

100hp? dry shot?

that would be nice...

i think someone ran a 75hp dryshot for about 3 months. then his motor blew.

lolachampcar

From Last Post to First-

Yes, caution is probably the most important ingredient. This is why I am looking to work with an experienced and just plain smart tuner who knows RX-8s well. The nitrous needs to be introduced slowly and verified as working correctly while incrementally increasing shot size.

I've no experience with the LS series motors nor their respective MAF sensors. The AMG 6.3 motors use a Bosch hot wire maf while the Mazda uses a Denso. I've used the Denso sensor on several other projects and feel it works well. If the RX-8 sensor works as well "measuring" nitrous mass as the Bosch unit, then most of the work will be done by the RX-8's fuel control. The one benefit of the Bosch system is that no fuel control "mapping" is required. The RX-8 does require extending the load axis for the fuel and timing maps along with altering some torque limits to let the system work to higher reported load values. All of this is very well known by the people tuning for forced induction systems and the bugs seem to be worked out of the baseline set-ups. The added benefit of extending the RX-8 fuel maps is that you now have an opportunity to adjust fuel if the maf is not measuring nitrous to the tuner's liking.

With respect to my comments on the Bosch ECU, it just happens to be the one I am working on for another tuner. I am not suggesting changing ECUs in the RX-8. I am suggesting that the stock RX-8 configuration may work very well. This is especially true given that I know from first hand experience that the RX-8 can deliver over 300 hp to the rear wheels on the stock fuel system. That is incredible to me given that the car only does about 180 hp stock. I am amazed that Mazda put that much extra fuel system in the car. Anyway, the fuel control reprogramming part is done as well as the data logging part to confirm the installation. All of that would be wrapped into the controller so there is no extra hardware.

With respect to the question about needing a fuel line, the answer is no and part of the reason I find the idea interesting. The system I am doing for the AMG cars consists of a bottle, solenoid, credit card sized controller, hose and nozzles. The solenoid and controller are mounted to the bottle as a single unit. There are two electrical connections, one to the battery for power and one two wire connection to the CAN bus. The single hose is run from the bottle to a T fitting in the engine bay and then one nozzle in each fresh air inlet running at the very front of the engine. The installation is brain dead simple, very easy to remove or disable (turn off the bottle), does not damage the engine when the bottle goes dry and yet the ability to control when the nitrous comes on, how much nitrous you add, and even being able to manage the nitrous on traction control events is fairly advanced. I like very simple things to install that do the job very well.

My goal here is not to skate by the vendor rules on the forum. I am looking for tuners that are already vendors on the forum and are who think this idea may be right for the RX-8 community. I generate tools to help tuners serve their customers. I do not tune for a living and only dabble in it with my own projects for fun or when working with a tuner knowledgeable with a particular car. Moderators, please let me know if the above is unacceptable and I will gladly pull the posts.

Thanks to all, Bill

zoom44

you are fine bill

ShellDude

iTrader: (12)

My only callout is the loss of the canbus port as a result of the system. That would prevent me from running other digital gauge and monitoring type systems, as well as complicating EMS solutions such as the AccessPort.

I've heard of people trying to piggyback multiple systems but haven't heard much about the success rate of it.

lolachampcar

I think it might be best to either pick an unused opening on a CAN block (like on some German cars) or "T" into an existing CAN connection. Either of these two approaches would leave the OBDii port free for normal useage.

As for the AP, that is one way to make the increase in load axis changes to the fuel control.

The only issue I see would be to try and passively sniff the needed information from the CAN bus such that anything that uses Tester Present type connections can function normally.

ShellDude

iTrader: (12)

That's the thing... I haven't heard of people having a lot of success in this space with our car.

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

i tried a standard splitter with different combinations of ScanGaugeII, DashHawk, AP. SG and DH played nice. The AP in combination with either of the other two was a failure though...

lolachampcar

I'll shoot for being passive on the bus (ie. turning logging off if necessary) so that there is an option to not interfere with other add on bits doing work. I think it is just a matter of sniffing the RX-8 CAN bus to see what the PCM broadcasts and if there is enough there to get the job done.

No matter who does the data collection (which electronic device, that is) I think it will be critical to log data and confirm a particular programming set up before a tuner can release it to a customer.

Any tuners out there working on these types of projects for current or future customers?

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Good to see you back