Side and peripheral exhaust ports
#52
Registered
I didn't know that! Thanks for letting me know! Would one have to run one piece apex seals or 3mm apex seals to protect it when it crosses over the P port? I talked to a couple different shops and thats what they said. I would just like some clarification from some other people on here. Unless theres a good thread somewhere that i should read? But im not sure there would be since this seems to be more of a one off modification than most of the other mods done to this car.
#54
Driving my unreliable rx8
I think they want to cut it for the deeper 2mm rx7 apex seals. Several people have done it with good results. The best analogy I've seen is a fence post. If its shallow it wiggles a lot and makes a big hole in the ground. If its deep they're much more stable.
But with pport it will also be less likey to break when passing the gap
But with pport it will also be less likey to break when passing the gap
#55
^ This. Just got a quote from Pettit and they'll machined the Renesis rotors to accept older 13B apex seals, $50/slot. Good news for me because I've got a brand new set of Rotary Aviation Super Seals begging to be used.
Also, to reiterate on the point about sealing off the center exhaust ports- absolutely yes. Seal off the other side exhaust ports too while you're at it and run strictly peripheral exhaust ports. That would simplify things so much in terms of manifold options, whether you decide to fabricate or buy an off the shelf version. Racing Beat 13B headers are inexpensive and proven. I'm probably going to either have a 2 piece long tube header fabricated or buy the one Defined Autoworks makes.
Also, to reiterate on the point about sealing off the center exhaust ports- absolutely yes. Seal off the other side exhaust ports too while you're at it and run strictly peripheral exhaust ports. That would simplify things so much in terms of manifold options, whether you decide to fabricate or buy an off the shelf version. Racing Beat 13B headers are inexpensive and proven. I'm probably going to either have a 2 piece long tube header fabricated or buy the one Defined Autoworks makes.
#58
Registered
Ok, so, send the rotors in to be machined to accept the new apex seals, close the middle exhaust port, and perhaps all of the side exhaust ports, custom fab long tube headers. Would it be possible to keep the rest of the motor stock? Custom tuning would be needed, but shouldnt be that hard seeing as it (in my usage) would not be FI. Any ideas?
#59
Release the twins.
you guys all forget what hit me in the face like a brick. the side seals will need oil, you must make the peri port housings out of MSP housings with the side oil squirters.
the housings pictured above are indeed GSL-SE housings. also i have a BNIB GSL-SE middle housing to 1. DELETE CENTER EXHAUST 2. The GSL-SE housing has the smallest and lowest port timing.
You can't use the gsl-se housings or REW housings with the water seal groove cut into them, unless you premix or add side oil squirters just like MSP housings have.
yesterday i welded a steel pipe to the steel liner of the housing in one of my early PP attempts
i'm going to make a new thread after one of these go into a car.
for the intake i use alum welded on both ends.
for the exhaust port, i'm going to weld a large aluminum tube, with an inner steel tube welded to the liner, like above. and im going to make a few different timings, one heavy over lap with them large and close togather, and one with them far away with the least overlap. go Team Wankel
VVT
the VVT effect.
I plan to run the front side exhaust, and the rear side exhaust ports and have the exhaust periports close with 38mm waste gates( two of them keeping the ports from talking to each other.( what else would seal and hold the heat?) then open the pp port at the best point...
the intake is going to be a little more, first off the motor will be a 4 port MSP, so no apv in the way of the pports. then use the stock rx8 manifold with the ssv and vdi, and adjust them depending on what the pp flow does when it opens. the intake pport will be connected to butterflies in the intake. with a sensor to tell the computer with airflow practically doubles.(the ports open)
so 3 stages of intake and 2 stage exhuast.
as for the apex seals, i have decided on a steel seal and the RA super would be a good choice IMO. i would also run the goopy rx8 as well. so far i've used nothing but oem in rx8s but they've all be stock engines. trying to sell the ones i have and buy a new shop
the housings pictured above are indeed GSL-SE housings. also i have a BNIB GSL-SE middle housing to 1. DELETE CENTER EXHAUST 2. The GSL-SE housing has the smallest and lowest port timing.
You can't use the gsl-se housings or REW housings with the water seal groove cut into them, unless you premix or add side oil squirters just like MSP housings have.
yesterday i welded a steel pipe to the steel liner of the housing in one of my early PP attempts
i'm going to make a new thread after one of these go into a car.
for the intake i use alum welded on both ends.
for the exhaust port, i'm going to weld a large aluminum tube, with an inner steel tube welded to the liner, like above. and im going to make a few different timings, one heavy over lap with them large and close togather, and one with them far away with the least overlap. go Team Wankel
VVT
I'm not sure on how much different the exhaust timing would be on that motor. I've never had a gsl-se housing next to a MSP iron before to judge how much earlier or later the exhaust valve would open. my guess is that there would be a bit of overlap to it. but, at the same time the MSP intake is variable as well. would you have to make some sort of "VVT" for the exhaust side? and if you did, it could theoretically be as simple as welding some sort of "cut out" into the pipe coming off of the P ports. that way, as your rpms go up you can have the p ports "open up."
I plan to run the front side exhaust, and the rear side exhaust ports and have the exhaust periports close with 38mm waste gates( two of them keeping the ports from talking to each other.( what else would seal and hold the heat?) then open the pp port at the best point...
the intake is going to be a little more, first off the motor will be a 4 port MSP, so no apv in the way of the pports. then use the stock rx8 manifold with the ssv and vdi, and adjust them depending on what the pp flow does when it opens. the intake pport will be connected to butterflies in the intake. with a sensor to tell the computer with airflow practically doubles.(the ports open)
so 3 stages of intake and 2 stage exhuast.
as for the apex seals, i have decided on a steel seal and the RA super would be a good choice IMO. i would also run the goopy rx8 as well. so far i've used nothing but oem in rx8s but they've all be stock engines. trying to sell the ones i have and buy a new shop
Last edited by lastphaseofthis; 01-09-2015 at 09:26 PM.
#61
Release the twins.
stop pretending you are ahead of us and already know the outcome.
i know the pitfall of my engines will be the amount of money i have to invest. that being said i plan to start with BRAND NEW housings, and cut and weld them. that's why i'm practicing on my spares. i will likely have to fun a few of the better spares to make sure it runs as a normal MSP engine with the pports are closed.
i know the pitfall of my engines will be the amount of money i have to invest. that being said i plan to start with BRAND NEW housings, and cut and weld them. that's why i'm practicing on my spares. i will likely have to fun a few of the better spares to make sure it runs as a normal MSP engine with the pports are closed.
#62
Registered
iTrader: (3)
Yeah, from what I've seen on the 7 forum all the non oem metal seals tend to eat housings faster than stock seals. Part of the reason the rx8 seals are shorter is to keep their mass down, when rotating at 9000rpm there is quite a bit of centrifugal force pushing the seals against the housing. Longer seals that are made of harder material will put more force on the housings and will eat them up. Reving to 10k+ will just make the problem worse. Carbon or ceramic could be better choices, but as you go to higher RPMs there are a lot of unknowns. This build sounds a lot more like a disposable race car engine than a daily driver. Which is fine, if you have realistic goals for output and longevity.
#65
Do you have experience to back up this claim? Also, my build will most likely be limited to around or under 9k, hardly high revving. I've seen build with RA super seals making 500+hp and turning around 10k with zero problems.
#68
Registered
iTrader: (3)
He is a blowhard who irritates me all the time, but he has a lot of experience. Ignore him at your own peril.
#69
Release the twins.
Nope, I have no personal experience, but there are plenty of people who do though. Making 500+ hp with "no problem", and making 500hp without tearing up the housings in 20k miles are two different things. See my comment about disposable engines.
He is a blowhard who irritates me all the time, but he has a lot of experience. Ignore him at your own peril.
He is a blowhard who irritates me all the time, but he has a lot of experience. Ignore him at your own peril.
#70
Registered
iTrader: (3)
Here is a link with a bit more than the dyno:
Join5
Yes it is an impressive number, but it comes from having a tuned intake length and the PP intake. You can get some gains on the other end with a tuned exhaust. The big problem with tuning the header to this degree is that you lose performance outside of the RPM the engine is tuned for, and the dyno shows that.
Having side port and PP exhaust will hurt your scavenging and prevent you from tuning the header length because of the siamese port and because of the two (and a half) paths exhaust takes from each housing.
Also not that with all the R&D and time the Mazdatrix engine only got 264hp. Think you can get 50% more HP out of the engine and have it street-able and reliable?
Join5
Yes it is an impressive number, but it comes from having a tuned intake length and the PP intake. You can get some gains on the other end with a tuned exhaust. The big problem with tuning the header to this degree is that you lose performance outside of the RPM the engine is tuned for, and the dyno shows that.
Having side port and PP exhaust will hurt your scavenging and prevent you from tuning the header length because of the siamese port and because of the two (and a half) paths exhaust takes from each housing.
Also not that with all the R&D and time the Mazdatrix engine only got 264hp. Think you can get 50% more HP out of the engine and have it street-able and reliable?
#71
Release the twins.
Here is a link with a bit more than the dyno:
Join5
Yes it is an impressive number, but it comes from having a tuned intake length and the PP intake. You can get some gains on the other end with a tuned exhaust. The big problem with tuning the header to this degree is that you lose performance outside of the RPM the engine is tuned for, and the dyno shows that.
Having side port and PP exhaust will hurt your scavenging and prevent you from tuning the header length because of the siamese port and because of the two (and a half) paths exhaust takes from each housing.
Also not that with all the R&D and time the Mazdatrix engine only got 264hp. Think you can get 50% more HP out of the engine and have it street-able and reliable?
Join5
Yes it is an impressive number, but it comes from having a tuned intake length and the PP intake. You can get some gains on the other end with a tuned exhaust. The big problem with tuning the header to this degree is that you lose performance outside of the RPM the engine is tuned for, and the dyno shows that.
Having side port and PP exhaust will hurt your scavenging and prevent you from tuning the header length because of the siamese port and because of the two (and a half) paths exhaust takes from each housing.
Also not that with all the R&D and time the Mazdatrix engine only got 264hp. Think you can get 50% more HP out of the engine and have it street-able and reliable?
#72
(ノ◕ヮ◕)ノ*:・゚✧ Rotary Radness, Mazdatrix's 13B REW/MSP Hybrid!
Thank you for sharing that Mazdatrix assembly .It helped me understand the difference in the reni motors.Sweet! Thx.
#73
rev it up
Not sure if this has been posted here:
Rotary Radness, Mazdatrix's 13B REW/MSP Hybrid!
Very detailed photos of the whole process
Rotary Radness, Mazdatrix's 13B REW/MSP Hybrid!
Very detailed photos of the whole process
Last edited by skc; 01-12-2015 at 07:22 PM.
#74
Not sure if this has been posted here:
Rotary Radness, Mazdatrix's 13B REW/MSP Hybrid!
Very detailed photos of the whole process
Rotary Radness, Mazdatrix's 13B REW/MSP Hybrid!
Very detailed photos of the whole process
Read my post then check the top of the thread this page?.