Moon Assad

MM have you had your motor apart for any inspection? From what ive seen it ruines the whole set of steel housings. Id think a longer runner off the exaust ports would have a positive affect.

eviltwinkie

Which I can make an assumption...which again I hate to do...that states the WHOLE area was probably heating up and creating a weaker (softer) spot due to heat. We can again assume that anyone w/ FI is going to be beating on it here and there...where I think we would see this the most would be on high temp long term runs where you've been hammering it for a while which causes the material itself in that area to become soft due to the heat...which then gets scraped by the seal...

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

These are failed engines?

It is likely that when the apex seal broke on these motors, its only path out was through the corner seal since there is no peripheral port through which to exit on the Renesis.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

I've used a scope and I don't see any scratching. I haven't had the time to pull it apart, yet.

Moon Assad

Would it be a good idea to kinda temper the housing at a higher temp then it will see and take care of the problem, For instance we tryed gutting the internals of the housings for a lighter display modle with a plasma cutter and caused it to temper so hard our bandsaw couldnt cut through it, OPPS. But it seems to cut like butter on a normal housing.

eviltwinkie

Anyone care to do a little thermodynamic analysis??

When FI...at X lbs entering the system...heats up to X degrees...and then attempts to exit via outlets which can only exit X volume due to flow...then figure out how that 90 degree bend is inhibiting that flow and therefore absorbing/retaining some of it...then figure out the properties of the material the housing is made of to see IF or WHEN X lbs of boost creates temps which come close/exceed the rated property of the materials...

anyone else confused yet??

Moon Assad

It was from were and that caused the seal to fail. It even happened on the rotor side that would adventualy fail but didnt yet.

eviltwinkie

Have you noticed if perhaps the "shared" ports have a higher wear or dip?? (probably inperceptible to the eye)

I would imagine that the heat exiting that area will be higher than the other ports and therefore the issue would be seen in that area the most??

Moon Assad

Yeh, the only thing id be worried about with a high heat temper would be warpage. Ive played with tempering alittle, we did it on the spindals we built for the GT car. You get the metal to a certain temp then let it cool covered in sand, ive seen it done with oil and in the case of those housings I was chopping water did it.

Moon Assad

I was in the middle of a job and didnt have time to do a closer inspection.

Moon Assad

Maybe one peice apex seals would also cut down on that, what do you think? I think a hot temper would cause warpage, maybe.

eviltwinkie

I dont think we are talking about show stopper issue...I'm thinking that moving the turbo to the "bling" position may help the situation...but I'm more inclined to believe that its root cause is going to be the additional heat slamming up against that 90 degree exit over time...which is simply a best guess...

I might actually do the math and then post it so I can get as flamed as those ports do haa...

To me if your going to race prep an engine and doing any FI...treating the housing might be a good idea for even more reasons than its just a good thing to do...

eviltwinkie

You know...as much as I love the engine...this side port buisness should have been handled differently...perhaps space the chambers from each other so that each rotor could be handled independantly...hell offset the rotors so you can conserve space but give yourself enough room to at least use a gentle curve instead of that horrible turn...

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Shame you didn't get more info on what the turbos / exhaust configuration was Moon . This could save a few of us a lot of $ if it could be diagnosed.

Moon Assad

Ive acually been thinking of puting a flapper valve in the center exaust ports to increase flow. I think if yo leave it kinda sloppy it wouldnt were out and let you use the whole port for flow. I dont have a turbo to worrie about trashing and you can pull the seporater insert if you pull the pin out after a disasembly. Dont worrie about getting flamed by me, only fat heads get that from me.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

you said flapper valve..

to funny..

beers

Moon Assad

I appolgise, ive been absorbing info like a sponge but some of it goes in one ear and out th other. Id just say get the turbo as far away from those ports as possible.

eviltwinkie

I will bet you for sure he will be more keenly aware of it next time...at least we have a symptom for now and some possible ideas...even w/ the turbo/exhaust config the best thing we could do is postulate that its either the location of the turbo and the heat being concentrated in the area...or its simply the heat due to FI and that 90 degree bend which is my current theory...which frankly is a design issue and I would not really blame shortsighted engineering as it was engineered to perform within a set of original design constraints and its accomplishes that job well.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Moon - what drugs did you say you were taking ?

sorry - could not resist that one .

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

keep your GF out of this

swoope

iTrader: (5)

or if the turbo did not flow free enough at the top end.

beers

eviltwinkie

So if I got this correct..and i may not have...your thinking of using a valve to increase flow? I think I am missing something if you could elaborate...from what I know if you remove that center separator then the gas from one rotor has easy access to the other rotor which is a bad thing...so that separator is designed the way it is (sticking out a bit) to prevent just that kind of thing...crosstalk...removing it from my understanding would be detrimental...but I think rotorgod may be the best person to ask on that one...

Moon Assad

Kinda like a cheak valve instead of that split port. Like I say use the whole port for the exaust. Only one side pushes exaust out at a time. Who nows how long it will last but it seems to be a good idea atleast in my eyes.

eviltwinkie

I cant see a poor flowing turbo creating an issue like this...I mean if the turbo was isolated from the equation...and we only consider that it lacks enough flow...that would probably translate to less heat...if it were flowing more than the engine could handle then I would assume that would translate to...its more than able to produce more than enough heat...as with more power comes the added joy of additional heat...

again i might be missing something...

Moon Assad

Have it hinge at the front of the port. It would cover the oppsite port of the exaust discharge and dirrect it 45%, The same job that the split does without closing half the port and no 90% redirection as is now. Ow, they have me on morphine, vikeden and percosets