Thought to share some pictures
12-25-2006, 04:40 PM
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Thought to share some pictures
Here's some pictures of Renesis powered project that I'm working on. I thought that to share some pictures and info.
It's a semy monococue (catbon fiber and alu honeycomb) with tubular steel front subframe and rear/roll over structure which is simply an integrated roll cage. Weight under 800kg. Extensive aerodynamics including underbody tunnels etc. Now working on choosing FI components - turbo, intercooler etc. to give it reliable ~ 350hp with fastest possible spool up.
This car is intended to compete with UK's Noble. What do you rotary poisoned people think about it?
Cheers
Ted
It's a semy monococue (catbon fiber and alu honeycomb) with tubular steel front subframe and rear/roll over structure which is simply an integrated roll cage. Weight under 800kg. Extensive aerodynamics including underbody tunnels etc. Now working on choosing FI components - turbo, intercooler etc. to give it reliable ~ 350hp with fastest possible spool up.
This car is intended to compete with UK's Noble. What do you rotary poisoned people think about it?
Cheers
Ted
12-25-2006, 04:48 PM
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wow. how much would you sell the chassy for? that's for the future reference haha
and i must ask why renesis? why not a 13b from rx7? you can have variable compression with those blocks. i've seen as low as 8 to 9.5:1.
either way, hope you kick noble's ***.
oh and merry christmas!
and i must ask why renesis? why not a 13b from rx7? you can have variable compression with those blocks. i've seen as low as 8 to 9.5:1.
either way, hope you kick noble's ***.
oh and merry christmas!
12-25-2006, 05:00 PM
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keep the renesis. He's only trying to make 350hp and a renesis can do that w/ FI and has the side ports, computer managment and all the other fun stuff a 13b doesn't. Remeber he's keeping weight under 800kg (under 1800lbs) which is just stupid light. That's like an Exige S with 100 more HP.
As for poster's actual questions, I think it looks absolutely fantastic. Looks a lot more like a TVR to me. One thing I noticed is it looks like the sideview mirrors won't function, as the rear wheel hump appears to completely block their viewpath.
Major points for the exhaust and taillights! One question, if you have a rear valence like that don't you need a venturi tunnel in the front air splitter? I'm not too brushed up on my fluid mechanics but I thought that's how underbody tunneling worked... (?)
As for poster's actual questions, I think it looks absolutely fantastic. Looks a lot more like a TVR to me. One thing I noticed is it looks like the sideview mirrors won't function, as the rear wheel hump appears to completely block their viewpath.
Major points for the exhaust and taillights! One question, if you have a rear valence like that don't you need a venturi tunnel in the front air splitter? I'm not too brushed up on my fluid mechanics but I thought that's how underbody tunneling worked... (?)
12-25-2006, 05:27 PM
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I like it. That's really cool looking. I'd love to see a rotary in that. Forget 13B suggestion. Keep the Renesis. It's funny that you are making it to compete with Noble. My friend Curt's shop here in Houston is a Noble builder/finisher. It's a neat car but the turbo Ford V6 isn't nearly as cool as a turbo Renesis would be! Go for it and keep us updated.
12-25-2006, 06:27 PM
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Very awesome.
I, too, agree with flomulgator that it looks like a TVR, but regardless it's nice lookin'
Yeah, stay with the Renesis, it's lighter than the 13b's from the 7's, and being lightweight is a factor for your goal amount of weight.
Good luck! Can't wait to see more of this. (Subscribed)
-Cody
I, too, agree with flomulgator that it looks like a TVR, but regardless it's nice lookin'
Yeah, stay with the Renesis, it's lighter than the 13b's from the 7's, and being lightweight is a factor for your goal amount of weight.
Good luck! Can't wait to see more of this. (Subscribed)
-Cody
12-25-2006, 06:58 PM
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Just a thought.. if you are looking for FI to come on quick and strong.. have you considered S/C over turbo? for the power you are looking for, it seems reasonable that you could use something like pettit's twin screw, and i am pretty sure there are many more..
Very nice design BTW.. will look forward to seeing progress in time
Very nice design BTW.. will look forward to seeing progress in time
12-25-2006, 08:13 PM
#10
Power!!
This is beautiful! I see Panoz Esperante and Ferrari F599 influences and love it! Even better is that it is a renisis rotary! There are definitely 350 WHP solutions you can look into with a Turbo and Supercharger on this Forum. From what I have seen and read on this forum I would recommend PM'ing Rotarygod and MazdaManiac for their suggestions on engine/drivetrain layout. The three shops that seem to have the most desirable solutions are: Mazsport (turbo), Petit Racing(supercharger), Richard Paul(axial flow s/c).
What price range are you shooting for for a rolling chassis and complete package with engine?
What price range are you shooting for for a rolling chassis and complete package with engine?
12-25-2006, 08:49 PM
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We are about 1/13 power to weight. He will be at 1/5! That should be about a 11 second or better 1/4 mile.
I use Lightwave myself but don't know how to model architecturally accurate forms. Any suggestions?
I use Lightwave myself but don't know how to model architecturally accurate forms. Any suggestions?
12-26-2006, 12:10 AM
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Definetely one of the coolest hey look what im doing threads! I hope you succeed and kick some serious ***. I would love to see more rotary sports car! Not only does it have a rotary but it looks cool. Even batter then that it should be pretty damn fast. Im stoked!
12-26-2006, 12:27 AM
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I would be happy with a car like that with a non turbo renesis at that weight to keep cost and complexity down. Great project! I would be in on one if this were a serious project.
12-26-2006, 04:38 AM
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A bit more info
Thank you very much for kind words. I really appreciate it.
I have to say that I'm more than serious about this project. Those who know how much work/time it takes to get to this stage of design process would not doubt about how serious I am
.
Right now exterior shape design is about over. I’m not happy with front being a bit blunt but will fix it shortly. Than it’s time to produce class A surface model (where all surfaces are perfect and care taken that light, reflections and shadows look correct from every angle) than cut the model in form of actual body parts and than producing tooling (CNC machined plug and moulds taken from it). I have to say that I’m an engineer but not a car stylist. So what I have here is a compilation of what I loved about different beautiful cars from past and present.
On the chassis and suspension (which is my expertise) design. General chassis layout is very similar to that of Koenigsegg. Paul Martin helped great deal with carbon fiber monocoque design. (more than 20 years McLaren F1’s head of composites department. He designed and build monocoques that won numerous F1 championships. He also designed all the composite parts of MaLaren F1 road car). I added a picture of FEA analysis plot that shows stress distribution and (very low) value. Chassis stiffness in torsion came out over 20000Nm and monocoque itself is over 70000Nm. This is miles better than that of Noble and chassis stiffness is absolutely vital for handling. This is for a 57kg of weight (monocoque) and overall chassis weight is less than 100kg. Strength is extremely high. It also features impact absorbing structures – sides, front and rear.
With suspension two versions where designed– one which is more traditional and another is F1 style inboard suspension. This second layout allows to convert a streetable car into race car within 20min. All you needed is a jack and two wrenches. By changing push rod on bell crank mounting point motion ratio is changed from 0.8 to 1.1 that will give 2.06 times higher wheel rates, same goes for sway bars – all in all it is about relocating 8 bolts. All that is left - turning down spring perches prescribed amount of turns to lower ride height…. I know that most people will consider it PIA anyway. But this could be a very nice option for those who will like to take it on a race track.
To answer some of the questions:
Flomulgator - it is is not necessary to have convergence zone at the front splitter. It is a possibility thought. During current CFD study different solutions are tried – will see what works best. Car is designed as a street car but with FIA GT2 racing in mind so aerodynamics is area of primary attention. For those who want learn more about different solutions used in racing (sports prototypes particularly) I would highly recommend http://www.mulsannescorner.com/. Next step will be Katz’s book – easy to read and great introduction to race car aerodynamics.
Stickmantijuana – Renesis was the choice for multiple reasons… one of which it is available brand new from Mazdasport.
Shaunv74 – Price range should be similar to Nobles… It is not cheap by any means but on the other hand it is extremely cheap for carbon fiber chassis car.
Software being used:
SolidWorks for 3D modeling (switching to Catia atm.)
ICEM Surf for surface modeling
ANSYS and more recently MSC. Patran/Nastran for FEA analyses
Fluent, ICEM CFD, CFX for CFD analyses
Mitchells WinGeo3 and ADAMS/Car for suspension design
Soope – I’m all in rear/mid engine layout. But for economical reasons this one had to be front engined. So to be able to place the engine well with in wheelbase hood is long… well it’s not that long isn’t it? Also I needed place for front underbody diffuser.
Thank You
Ted
I have to say that I'm more than serious about this project. Those who know how much work/time it takes to get to this stage of design process would not doubt about how serious I am
. Right now exterior shape design is about over. I’m not happy with front being a bit blunt but will fix it shortly. Than it’s time to produce class A surface model (where all surfaces are perfect and care taken that light, reflections and shadows look correct from every angle) than cut the model in form of actual body parts and than producing tooling (CNC machined plug and moulds taken from it). I have to say that I’m an engineer but not a car stylist. So what I have here is a compilation of what I loved about different beautiful cars from past and present.
On the chassis and suspension (which is my expertise) design. General chassis layout is very similar to that of Koenigsegg. Paul Martin helped great deal with carbon fiber monocoque design. (more than 20 years McLaren F1’s head of composites department. He designed and build monocoques that won numerous F1 championships. He also designed all the composite parts of MaLaren F1 road car). I added a picture of FEA analysis plot that shows stress distribution and (very low) value. Chassis stiffness in torsion came out over 20000Nm and monocoque itself is over 70000Nm. This is miles better than that of Noble and chassis stiffness is absolutely vital for handling. This is for a 57kg of weight (monocoque) and overall chassis weight is less than 100kg. Strength is extremely high. It also features impact absorbing structures – sides, front and rear.
With suspension two versions where designed– one which is more traditional and another is F1 style inboard suspension. This second layout allows to convert a streetable car into race car within 20min. All you needed is a jack and two wrenches. By changing push rod on bell crank mounting point motion ratio is changed from 0.8 to 1.1 that will give 2.06 times higher wheel rates, same goes for sway bars – all in all it is about relocating 8 bolts. All that is left - turning down spring perches prescribed amount of turns to lower ride height…. I know that most people will consider it PIA anyway. But this could be a very nice option for those who will like to take it on a race track.
To answer some of the questions:
Flomulgator - it is is not necessary to have convergence zone at the front splitter. It is a possibility thought. During current CFD study different solutions are tried – will see what works best. Car is designed as a street car but with FIA GT2 racing in mind so aerodynamics is area of primary attention. For those who want learn more about different solutions used in racing (sports prototypes particularly) I would highly recommend http://www.mulsannescorner.com/. Next step will be Katz’s book – easy to read and great introduction to race car aerodynamics.
Stickmantijuana – Renesis was the choice for multiple reasons… one of which it is available brand new from Mazdasport.
Shaunv74 – Price range should be similar to Nobles… It is not cheap by any means but on the other hand it is extremely cheap for carbon fiber chassis car.
Software being used:
SolidWorks for 3D modeling (switching to Catia atm.)
ICEM Surf for surface modeling
ANSYS and more recently MSC. Patran/Nastran for FEA analyses
Fluent, ICEM CFD, CFX for CFD analyses
Mitchells WinGeo3 and ADAMS/Car for suspension design
Soope – I’m all in rear/mid engine layout. But for economical reasons this one had to be front engined. So to be able to place the engine well with in wheelbase hood is long… well it’s not that long isn’t it? Also I needed place for front underbody diffuser.
Thank You
Ted
Last edited by Tudor; 12-26-2006 at 04:40 AM.
12-26-2006, 06:00 AM
#20
i thought you were using solid works.. the other programs are new to me..... man i can appreciate the amount of time that you have put into this from one engineer to another.... i can't wait to see the process take place it must be very exciting....
12-26-2006, 10:36 AM
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Thanks for the info Tudor! I will look into the aerodynamics. Underbody shenanigans have always seemed a bit black magic to my little brain so I look forward to gettin' some learnin. I hear that with the big engine change in F1 this year all the big race teams are pouring extra millions into their underbody design.
I think I speak for everyone here when I say Tudor For The Win! on your newest design shot. Also, With the tubular layout (as shown in stress field) I see a T-top as a possibility? I hear rich people like to feel the breeze in their hair.....
I think I speak for everyone here when I say Tudor For The Win! on your newest design shot. Also, With the tubular layout (as shown in stress field) I see a T-top as a possibility? I hear rich people like to feel the breeze in their hair.....
Last edited by flomulgator; 12-26-2006 at 10:48 AM.
12-26-2006, 11:36 AM
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This is an amazing idea. Also, I like how you're thinking about putting a rotary in the car. Both the car and the engine are all about innovation! It sounds like you're thinking things out properly, and I wish you luck!
