Well I had my 8 dyno tuned for the second time on Fri. The first time the car ran well (229rwhp) at 6 PSI. AFR was right around 12.75 from 4K on. I autocrossed the car the next day and it performed well. The I decided to break in my race tires right and heat them up rather vigorously ( donuts ). After that the car kind of acted a little off. At around 5K after shifting from 1st to 2nd the car would just bog and act like you hit the brakes. I first thought the LTFT had pulled a bunch of fuel out causing it to go lean. We'll got it back on the dyno and it was making a whopping 190rwhp and the AFR was down around 10.5. So just the oposite I was running PIG RICH. Anyway we got it re-tuned and back up to 217 rwhp at 6psi and AFR of 12'ish. I pluled the plugs and they were absolutely nasty. I had one spot around 4K that was still around 11.5 AFR so I decided to turn up the boost. Now I am running at 8psi and plan to dyno on friday. The intial indication is that the car likes the new setting much better as the seat of the pants meter is definitely pegged.
Well I thought it was pretty interesting that the ECU added additional fuel instead of pulling fuel like it has for many others.
I will post the dyno chart once I dyno at 8psi.
Oh BTW I tried the original 3rd dongle while I was on the dyno. Very interesting to say the least. The car was very rich 10.5 AFR for most of the map. Here is the kicker, it locks the user out of the emanage. IT WILL NOT LET YOU MAKE ANY ADJUSTMENTS. I thought that was kind of wierd.
Anyone else experience this??

 

Weird. Not sure what it could be.
I did dyno shortly after installing the 3rd dongle and had no problem adjusting the map (070705map posted earlier).
I've given up on the emanage and getting the interceptor x (microtech) soon.

 

Adding fuel makes sense. You were running the engine hard with relatively little airflow. The ECU adds fuel to prevent detonation. Under "normal" driving that same fuel level is too rich.
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The OEM PCM is pretty unpredictable. Really bothersome. Mine doesn't seem to screw around the way others have, but my RX-8 is an exception.
I will have an E-Manage Ultimate on the way presently. It directly intercepts the fuel injectors and can auto-tune to a specific AFR, so the PCM is pretty much cancelled out.
It does timing split, also.
Probably the best and most cost-efficient upgrade for the Greddy.

 

Do you think the emanage ultimate is as good as what mazsport just came out with? I am thinking of taking the plunge and getting their interceptor cause my ecu is being a total pain.

 

mabe when busting donuts you knocked some clamps loose. I would suggest checking that when you get a chance.

-hS

 

but the emanage ultimate still only alters the signal from the stock pcm, it doesn't create its own signal. So it is still a piggyback computer. I think it will be better than the blue emanage, but not anywhere near as good as the intercepter. But Mazdamaniac must have thought it had potential, so maybe I'm wrong.

 

It can replace the stock signal, though it isn't necessary.
Since it can chase an A/F (like the factory ECU), it will correct for every change the OEM PCM makes instead of acting blindly on a preset table.

Since it is plug-in compatible with the regular E-Manage harness, it will take only the addition of three wires and one connection to a wideband O2 controller to get the new functionality, making it attractive to current E-Manage users.
The Greddy MAP (or any other) can then be feedback controlled to compensate for the PCM adaptations over time.

 

It does this on the fly? I guess I thought it only did this in a tuning mode...

 

What about the O2 sensor burnout issue? I thought even with a heat sink the Bosch sensor can't stay there all the time.
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I've had mine installed for about a week now with no problems. I don't even have the heat sink! I installed in in the cat, right after the flange and before the cat element, in the expansion section of the cat housing. It seems to be working well. I haven't even gotten the overheating error message once yet. :D


-MD

 

It works continuously. There is a MAP for the response that behaves somewhat like the acceleration MAP in the Gold version. However, the Ultimate can both add AND take away fuel directly at the injector lines without modifying the AFM signal like the Blue, Gold or CZ units.
There are also built in "foolers" for the NBO2S and knock sensor as well as a CPS input that can probably be rigged as an ESS input.

I burned up several before I found a safe position for them. In my case, that is after the mid pipe.
If you have a CAT, you are forced to mount the sensor right before it. The EGTs may or may not support a sensor for the long run in that position.
The OEM sensor doesn't seem to have a problem with EGT, so perhaps there is a better sensor for the job than the Bosch.

 

So MM do you think the ultimate has the capabilities to properly tune the car, or is it another partial solution that works sometimes on some cars. Do you think this could do as good of a job as the interceptor?

 

The eManage Ultimate, with any luck, will work well enough to put price pressure on the Interceptor.

 

^ Now you're talking!

All else being equal, there might be some advatntages to going with GReddy: support for the product in the long-term being one of them. GReddy has been doing that for a long, long time. They have the advantage of knowing how to support a product line, even with upgrades and firmware revisions.

 

It should work very well. It acts much like a stand-alone in areas where it needs to and gives the tuner control over more sensors than the original E-Manage

 

So the ultimate does what with the knock sensor? I kind of like how the knock sensor will retard timing or throw it fuel to kill a bad knock, to me its kind of a safety net. So will that still be the same with the ultimate? I am seriously thinking of going ultimate instead of interceptor after reading this thread, was sold on interceptor. Will the same wheel horsepower be achievable with a good tune on the ultimate as the interceptor video shows?

 

My main problem with the emanage, is that were still using the cold water temp dongle to "trick" the ecu. I really don't think this is a good approach for the long run. One reason being, the engine changes all kinds of things when it thinks it is cold, who knows what this could do over long term.

 

The Ultimate won't need that. It directly controls the fuel injectors. It can add and subtract fuel directly and modify its values based on O2 sensor feed back.

 

I think I may get the ultimate too after reading this.

I was worried about the problems people were having with blue EManage, so I thought id wait and get the Interceptor. But, now that the Ultimate should perform much better, and will eliminate the issues people are having with the blue emanage, I think that The Ultimate is a great alternative.

This the right idea?

Seems better to pay 500 vs 1600 for the ultimate if it will eliminate the tuning issues with stock emanage.

 

You might want to hold on to your money for a few weeks until I can get the Ultimate sorted out and report back here.

I am inherently cheap. However, I am also a big fan of trouble-free installations. I like my car to be comfortable and reliable, so cheap will not eclipse proper function in my list of priorities.

I should have the Ultimate installed in my car by the first week of September. I am semi-homeless after the 25th of August (I sold my house here in Maryland and I don't move into my new house in Phoenix until the end of the year so I am living in a roach motel of an apartment in the interim with no garage), so it will be a bit taxing to do any serious work.
I should be able to get the E-Manage Ultimate wired up with no real issues since I already have most of the wiring in place for the Blue E-Manage which is pin-compatible.

Stay tuned (pun intended)

 

Im not pickin up the kit for another 2 months ish anyways.

Im very interested to see how it works, as the only think really holding my back is the EManage.

If this eliminates the problems, then im game.

 

Welcome to the great Southwest! I moved to New Mexico from Fredersicksburg, VA, just down the road from you. Phoenix is hellaciously hot, much more so than here in NM.


-MD

 

I am thinking about the Ultimate, too. I have the blue installed now. I am working-out the bugs for a few days until I get the plumbing installed.

I would recommend what I did:
1) permanently install a WB02 to keep an eye on things. It works nicely in the Profec e-01 as you can look at boost and AFR in one slick package.

2) install the fuel management a week or so before the rest of the turbo. This will give you the opportunity to really learn the ins and outs without getting into trouble. Since the maps are based on boost, you won't have any trouble driving around with the turbo maps installed. They just won't kick-in since there's no boost pressure.

3) wait and see how your particular car does with the blue. Some are getting good results. Upgrade only if you need to. The WB02 gage will keep you from damaging anything while you figure out how your car responds.


-MD

 

so am I hearing a 12.5-12.75 is better than a flat 12 AFR?