There is no "magic" number.
11:1 might be apropriate in some load ranges.
The idea is to run as lean as you can without incurring knock.
Generally, you want to tune about 1 point richer than maximum power.
The best thing is to tune super rich (just short of misfire) and gradually lean up until you hit peak torque than go a point richer than that.
There are some load points where I am at 13:1. that is just the nature of my particular motor.

You MUST do this on a dyno or in a controlled environment where you can hold a load for a few seconds without having to worry about driving.

 

Can't the intercetor do everything the Ultimate can do, but it is plug and play unlike the ultimte. Also can the ultimate control spark like the interceptor.

 

The interceptor will totally remove the PCM from the ignition and fuel equation, if I understand it correctly.
The Ultimate can leave the PCM in the loop, as it were, so that the knock sensor and other saftey controls remain somewhat in place.
The main advantage to the Ultimate is its ability to "chase" a preset A/F target while modifying the fuel delivery in the same way as the original E-Manage.
This effectively removes the adaptive process from the PCM and is plug-and-play to the original Greddy harness in the turbo kit.

 

OOOH.

 

I just checked the Greddy site, and it said "Air-fuel target map for self-tuning to speed up intial tuning", this would lead me to believe that it doesn't do this on the fly, which means that you would still have the same problem with LTFT. While interceptor won't because you have complete control of spark and fuel. After talking to Scott at Mazsport over the phone earlier I am going with the interceptor.

 

Nope. It has an actual interactive MAP that is dedicated to the WBO2S input.
You input a target A/F and the Ultimate adds or subtracts from the additional injection and sub-injection MAPs to acheive the desired A/F.

Here is a picture of the actual MAP.
Instead of using the hotwire as the input, you use the "option 1" input.

 

BTW - The Ultimate has proper controlls for all of the injectors seperately, unlike the Blue (which groups the secondaries and the primary 2 together) and it has seperate ignition MAPs for the leading and trailing plugs so that you can control split.

 

**** man . . . I should just pay you to tune my car - altered atmosphere got 218 whp out of my turbo kit at stock boost with stock everything on the car except 18x285s on 18x9.5 23lb rims in the rear.

 

I'm still confused over the OEM ECU and LTFT. Even if the Ultimate targets an A/F, the stock ECU is still changing it's trims, right? If so, is there a limit on the amount of trims the stock ECU will produce? Are we still going to need to "reset" the stock ECU every now and then even with the Ultimate?

 

kevin i would think tha tif the PCM keeps telling the system to add fuel and it doesnt get its intended result at some point it MIGHT throw a cel. that is pure speculation on mypart.

 

The LTFT won't go over 30%.
Additionally, I intend to wire the OEM WBO2S through the airflow meter 2 input on the Ultimate and spoof the factory PCM into thinking it isn't running so rich under boost so that it wont extend the LTFT as far.

 

Thanks Jeff and Charlie

Interesting to say the least. I'll need to follow your progress. I assume that you will start a new thread to let us know.

 

It seems to me it would be much easier to just buy the Intercepter, instead of constantly trying to trick the oem ecm by adding /subtracting wires ,plugs whatever...

 

Can you explain that more, I do not understand how that spoofs the oem ecu? Thanks

 

The secondary airflow meter input will modify the O2 sensor signal to appear more lean when under boost.

 

Sure. 3x the price to do essentially the same thing.
Maybe it would be "just easier" to buy a real stand alone like the Haltec.

If you are using the Greddy turbo kit already, the Ultimate plugs right in. All that needs to be added is a line from the Ultimate to the stand-alone WBO2S that everyone under boost should already have installed, unless they like living dangerously.

 

Jeff,

What about the ignition timing control? All this fuel control looks great, but I figure that timing will be just as important for the FI folks.

I hope the emanage ultimate really works out for the Greddy turbo folks, it will be nice to add another ECU option to the list.

 

The Ultimate has two separate timing MAPs - one for leading and another for trailing. This allows the split to be controlled.
They have also fixed the dwell current issue so that it won't burn coils.

 

so the ultimate can completely control and sever the ingition timing just like the fuel? Can it read the stock ingition wheel signal? what are you tapping into for ignition?
If you guys can do that, your home free

in addition, what types of idle control does it give? could you show a pic of that screen?

Thanks for the info

 

That would definitely be cool.

 

It doesn't completly sever control of the ignition or fuel. It still intercepts the OEM signals.
However, it now allows individual control over both leading and trailing ignition and all three injector signals (though now the injectors can add AND subtract fuel).
It is the O2 feedback that is really the main advantage.
It can read the stock wheel, which is an improvement over the "approximate" timing calculation of the old version, though I don't think it is particularly important since the error was only 1° by the old method.

Here is the idle control MAP:

 

Jeff,

this looks really good man, so if I understand you correctly, and I'm sure your getting tired of repeating yourself here, the ultimate sits in between the PCM and the injectors and spark control, takes the PCM signals, sticks them in some deep dark place never to bee seen again, and then directly controls the fuel and ignition timing off its own maps. It can also read a WBo2 and use that to tune on the fly, and send a signal back to the PCM saying everything is peachy and in a afr range you decide the PCM will like.

Can you just tap the stock o2 signal? Why are you guys buying another sensor?

it appears with the idle adjustment table you can lean or richen the mixture as your adjustment, is that correct?

 

The problem with the Ultimate it still draws and alters the original signal, while the Interceptor makes a whole new one.

 

I contacted Greddy, and you do still have to use the cold water temp dongle with this unit because it does only modify the ecu's original signals, just like the blue emanage, and so it needs to force the stock ecu into open loop. This one just gives more features. However, I think if you had an ecu that learned and fought back before, this will not change anything and will not really help you. If you ecu didn't fight back, then this could add some cool new capabilities.

 

scrap that then, my ecu is fighting like a champ!