SC or Trade in for Manule
05-16-2007, 08:51 AM
#26
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The reality is that the HP difference between the MT and AT could be an average of around 25 to 30 HP. That is not some unachievable distance that can't be matched with the right mods on an RX-8 Auto. Keep in mind that Mazda was de-tuning the AT on purpose to prevent blown AT transmissions that could not handle high revs.
What some of you MT guys that hate ATs don't understand:
The whp limit comes from the ECU limits and issues with the AT transmission handling high RPMs.
The RX-8 AT ECU can be flashed to go beyond the rpm restriction and ATF cooler can be added to allow for going into the higher rpm range. I've pushed my RX-8 Auto to 8000-8500 RPMs with ZERO problem.
Now on the 4AT you can argue about it getting enough air, but FI will give you more air and so arguably would a well designed ram air duct (not as much as FI, but would help some at high speed).
However the 6AT does not have that problem and can get as much air as any manual 6MT.
Mazda de-tuned the RX-8 Auto on purpose, so as not to be liable for any blown AT trannies. Therefore, there is more room for performance improvement than many MT people know about.
The Auto's have slightly more torque than their MT cousins. Shifting would be very consistent in auto or manual mode of the RX-8 auto. So unless the MT person was a pro at shifting gear, he could lose out due to mis-shifting to the right gear.
With the right SC kit and the right mods, the RX-8 Auto can hand out defeats to non-FI RX-8 MTs. With the right mods an FI RX-8 Auto could also handle FI RX8 MTs. In a drag, if the torque converter problem was corrected, the RX-8 Auto could hand out defeats to RX-8 MTs in that area too.
As time goes by and more solutions come out, I'm sure there will be many surprised RX-8 MT people.
Lastly, people have the right to do what they want. If you love shifting in traffic, more power to you. If you don't like shifting in traffic, like watching movies in the car, and getting kissed "down there" by your girlfriend than more power to all of us too. If you have gone in and out through traffic at high speed, then you will understand the love of an RX-8 Auto. It's too easy to make a shifting mistake or lose focus in an manual, in that type of situation.
Different strokes for different folks.
What some of you MT guys that hate ATs don't understand:
The whp limit comes from the ECU limits and issues with the AT transmission handling high RPMs.
The RX-8 AT ECU can be flashed to go beyond the rpm restriction and ATF cooler can be added to allow for going into the higher rpm range. I've pushed my RX-8 Auto to 8000-8500 RPMs with ZERO problem.
Now on the 4AT you can argue about it getting enough air, but FI will give you more air and so arguably would a well designed ram air duct (not as much as FI, but would help some at high speed).
However the 6AT does not have that problem and can get as much air as any manual 6MT.
Mazda de-tuned the RX-8 Auto on purpose, so as not to be liable for any blown AT trannies. Therefore, there is more room for performance improvement than many MT people know about.
The Auto's have slightly more torque than their MT cousins. Shifting would be very consistent in auto or manual mode of the RX-8 auto. So unless the MT person was a pro at shifting gear, he could lose out due to mis-shifting to the right gear.
With the right SC kit and the right mods, the RX-8 Auto can hand out defeats to non-FI RX-8 MTs. With the right mods an FI RX-8 Auto could also handle FI RX8 MTs. In a drag, if the torque converter problem was corrected, the RX-8 Auto could hand out defeats to RX-8 MTs in that area too.
As time goes by and more solutions come out, I'm sure there will be many surprised RX-8 MT people.
Lastly, people have the right to do what they want. If you love shifting in traffic, more power to you. If you don't like shifting in traffic, like watching movies in the car, and getting kissed "down there" by your girlfriend than more power to all of us too. If you have gone in and out through traffic at high speed, then you will understand the love of an RX-8 Auto. It's too easy to make a shifting mistake or lose focus in an manual, in that type of situation.
Different strokes for different folks.
:yAMEN!!! I was JUST THIS MORNING ON THE WAY TO WORK zipping in and out of traffic at a high speed this morning!! It was great, however i just left it in one gear and let the revs do the work (LOVE THOSE HIGH REVVING CARS!). The MT could also do that I suppose. But I LOVE my AT. Getting my AT Cooler today, installed on Friday. Can't wait for the Cobb AP tuner to have fun revving to 8k-8500!!
05-16-2007, 09:34 AM
#27
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First off, the non-FI MT does not produce 260whp. The MT is rated around 238HP and the AT is at 197-215HP (depending in which country you are in OR if you have a 4AT or 6AT). Many believe Mazda just straight up lied about HP or were forced to decrease HP for emission reasons.
Lastly, people have the right to do what they want. If you love shifting in traffic, more power to you. If you don't like shifting in traffic, like watching movies in the car, and getting kissed "down there" by your girlfriend than more power to all of us too. If you have gone in and out through traffic at high speed, then you will understand the love of an RX-8 Auto. It's too easy to make a shifting mistake or lose focus in an manual, in that type of situation.
Different strokes for different folks.
Lastly, people have the right to do what they want. If you love shifting in traffic, more power to you. If you don't like shifting in traffic, like watching movies in the car, and getting kissed "down there" by your girlfriend than more power to all of us too. If you have gone in and out through traffic at high speed, then you will understand the love of an RX-8 Auto. It's too easy to make a shifting mistake or lose focus in an manual, in that type of situation.
Different strokes for different folks.
Whatever you say, I just hope you are nowhere near me while you're driving and watching movies in the car, and getting kissed "down there.
Last edited by Red Devil; 05-16-2007 at 09:36 AM.
05-17-2007, 01:49 AM
#28
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Keep in mind that even if you defeat the rev limiter and errr.. un-detune (amazing grasp of the english language no?) the AT, you will always be fighting significantly greater drive train losses than the MT.
05-20-2007, 07:17 PM
#31
I think the numbers should just speak for themselves, the AT produced ~210whp, as I recall. The MT ~260whp. From 0-30, Moon stated the Automatic seemed faster, but after that the MT was faster.
If you'd be happy with ~210whp and like the comfort of your automatic - go for it. If you're looking for every amount of hp, you're missing a portion of the upper rev range where the rotary gets good and maybe you'll have to bite the bullet and trade.
If you'd be happy with ~210whp and like the comfort of your automatic - go for it. If you're looking for every amount of hp, you're missing a portion of the upper rev range where the rotary gets good and maybe you'll have to bite the bullet and trade.
1. The REV limit can be taken off the ATs via ECU flash.
This would have a more dramatic effect in a SC RX-8 Auto, as the SC should still help produce power higher in the rev range.
2. An ATF cooler can be used with an ECU flashed RX-8 w/ rev limit/speed limit removed.
This means the issue of going into the higher rev range and putting too much heat on the auto tranny would be reduced. Mazda's main reason for de-tuning the Auto was to protect the auto tranny from going. Then Mazda turned around and went CHEAP on the ATF cooler. By buying a good aftermarket ATF cooler and putting in quality AT fluid (Redline or Royal Purple), you allow your Auto tranny to handle 8000-8500 RPMs.
3. A good argument could be made that an ECU flash for RX-8 Auto needs to be specifically made.
Right now, pro-tuners focus on the manual RX-8s. I suspect that if the Cobb Accessport for the RX-8 ever makes it out that things could change. You could have a really good map for FI RX-8 Autos. Also, its likely that Pettit may tweak somethings specfically for the RX-8 Auto, as they have an SC RX-8 Auto and whenever they come out with their ECU flash.
What also would be interesting is some tweaking could be done for the auto transmission PCM, with a good ATF cooler in mind.
Lastly, a ~210 whp RX-8 twinscrew SC Auto, should be able to take out an RX-8 MT. That is so, even without tweaking the ECU or aftermarket AFT cooler... There will be more whp to be found once you starting adding some more tweaks intake, exhaust, ECU, custom torque converter, etc...
The MT is only putting out 25-30HP more (depending on 6AT or 4AT or country). The 6AT has the SAME engine as the 6MT, so the "potential" gap would be less, especially if you find "workarounds" for the auto tranny. 25-30HP is not a gap that can't be closed with some decent mods. When going FI, it will still depend on the kit, the mods, and what rev range is the power coming in.
Yes, the MT has higher potential or can reach a certain HP level for less, but that still does not mean Auto owners can't improve their performance or surpass various MT owners with lesser mods.
Last edited by sosonic; 05-20-2007 at 07:21 PM.
05-20-2007, 09:04 PM
#33
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Thanks, sosonic real informative.
Also, is there a thread that descirbes how to take off the rev limiter/ speed limiter, cause I'm still pretty new and don't think i could figure it out by myself. But, if there is a description somewhere with the help of some friends i think i might be able to do it myself.
And so the AT can handle thoes higher revs with nothing more than better transmission fluid?
Also, is there a thread that descirbes how to take off the rev limiter/ speed limiter, cause I'm still pretty new and don't think i could figure it out by myself. But, if there is a description somewhere with the help of some friends i think i might be able to do it myself.
And so the AT can handle thoes higher revs with nothing more than better transmission fluid?
05-20-2007, 09:40 PM
#34
Thanks, sosonic real informative.
Also, is there a thread that descirbes how to take off the rev limiter/ speed limiter, cause I'm still pretty new and don't think i could figure it out by myself. But, if there is a description somewhere with the help of some friends i think i might be able to do it myself.
And so the AT can handle thoes higher revs with nothing more than better transmission fluid?
Also, is there a thread that descirbes how to take off the rev limiter/ speed limiter, cause I'm still pretty new and don't think i could figure it out by myself. But, if there is a description somewhere with the help of some friends i think i might be able to do it myself.
And so the AT can handle thoes higher revs with nothing more than better transmission fluid?
You need an ECU flash to take off the rev limit/speed limiter. Re-Amemiya, R-Magic, Racing Beat (but maybe not for the auto), etc... Or you can buy the Int-X (EMU) or wait for the Cobb Accessport for the RX-8 (suppose to come out in the summer).
Last edited by sosonic; 05-22-2007 at 03:43 AM.
05-22-2007, 10:25 PM
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Ya i didnt think it was as simple as just removing something, lol, but i was hoping it would be. I have read a bit into an ECU flash and i dont think it would be to much to handle. I need to see if there is anyone around here who can install an atf cooler, i doubt it unless the dealer would, but i'm moving anyway so im sure there will be a good shop in virginia who could help me out.
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