20b question
09-13-2010, 02:54 PM
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20b question
Quick question I've been thinking about doing the 20b swap in my 2004 mt rx8. My question is regarding the tranny. I have the 20b motor lined up and ready for pick up but what type of trans. can i use besides the AT that comes with it? if there is any other one? Or does the OEM trans just bolt right on? Thanks.
09-13-2010, 03:18 PM
#2
There are some 20B threads buried in the forum somewhere and you should definitely read up on them. According to a lot of people its a very difficult and expensive install, but the people who have done it are more than willing to help. Good luck.
09-13-2010, 03:49 PM
#5
The stock is a direct fit but will only hold to certain point. fd trannies will work with some minor work to the shifter position, even fc trannies can be installed. they all attach to the 20B with no problem but the shifter is in a diff position and will need some work your ppf will also need some work. lots of questions to be answered before desiding on a tranny. N/A, turbo, which tires you will use, how you drive, what you want the car for, etc. if you choose to go with a stock tranny try to stay away from drag radials and shift like your granny would.
Last edited by angeljoelv; 09-13-2010 at 03:51 PM.
09-13-2010, 04:03 PM
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The stock is a direct fit but will only hold to certain point. fd trannies will work with some minor work to the shifter position, even fc trannies can be installed. they all attach to the 20B with no problem but the shifter is in a diff position and will need some work your ppf will also need some work. lots of questions to be answered before desiding on a tranny. N/A, turbo, which tires you will use, how you drive, what you want the car for, etc. if you choose to go with a stock tranny try to stay away from drag radials and shift like your granny would.
Haha this is the info i needed thanks. Yeah I'm mostly building it for autox/drag and I have an fd tranny wich will hold up to 400whp right? or was I missed informed. Also turbo set up is my goal. not quite as dramatic as yours( lol i wish it was) but still going for a boosted set up. My power goals are 325-350 nothing to crazy and the stock 20b is 280 already so wont be hard with a small turbo set up what do you think? Money isn't much of a big problem (not rich just single/hardworking :P) but I will be still building kinda of a budget. Upgrade later if needed
09-13-2010, 05:53 PM
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325-350 to the wheels on a 20b can easily be achieved with the stock twin setup. Hell you can achieve those numbers NA, which will be great for auto crossing. IMHO, if those numbers are your goals, then I really don't see a need for a single turbo setup. If you must swap for a single setup, then why not save some time with a 13b small single setup.
I'm just saying......
I'm just saying......
Last edited by bhop; 09-13-2010 at 05:57 PM.
09-14-2010, 02:15 AM
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325-350 to the wheels on a 20b can easily be achieved with the stock twin setup. Hell you can achieve those numbers NA, which will be great for auto crossing. IMHO, if those numbers are your goals, then I really don't see a need for a single turbo setup. If you must swap for a single setup, then why not save some time with a 13b small single setup.
I'm just saying......
I'm just saying......
A stock B series could can handle your HP goals all day long for years.
09-14-2010, 12:50 PM
#12
The reason you are being encouraged by others to do the 20B swap is called "living vicariously".
There is a LOT you have yet to read and learn and, by the time you do, you will probably end up changing your mind yet again. And for good reason.
325-350 at the wheels is hardly enough power to render a swap of this magnitude.
There is a LOT you have yet to read and learn and, by the time you do, you will probably end up changing your mind yet again. And for good reason.
325-350 at the wheels is hardly enough power to render a swap of this magnitude.
a 20B swap is not close to being worth it if all you want is 325-350hp. Theres plenty of options less costly to achieve. And its kind of a waste of potential. Ask charles, I'm sure he has a lot of answers on how to get that HP maybe even without a swap. Charles is that BOMB and pretty much everybody here trusts him ( including me).
09-14-2010, 06:52 PM
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Well what do you guys suggest? To be honest I really liked 20b swap option to be different. I see alot of turbo'd 8s in here but not many 20b sawps :P But if it really is cheaper to boost a stock motor for my hp goals this is whp btw should of said that. Anyways let me know what you guys suggest.
09-14-2010, 09:42 PM
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All I can divulge at this time is to suggest that you learn as much as you can about the car (as in "seat time" on a road course), which is what we all enciourage each other to do all the time, and you'll have 2/3 of the car nailed. Then, in about 6 months, you'll know exactly what to do and where to get it. 
09-17-2010, 07:28 AM
#15
We need a Blah-Blah-Blah forum with a 20B subsection ....
Nothing personal but the people who start this subject without doing even the most basic research never have $30k minimum burning a hole in their pocket, let alone the skills and long term effort to see it through (add $20k+ for somebody else to do it for you)
Talk = free
Reality = plenty
Watching all the usual suspects dive head-first into another sucker thread = priceless
Nothing personal but the people who start this subject without doing even the most basic research never have $30k minimum burning a hole in their pocket, let alone the skills and long term effort to see it through (add $20k+ for somebody else to do it for you)
Talk = free
Reality = plenty
Watching all the usual suspects dive head-first into another sucker thread = priceless
09-17-2010, 02:51 PM
#17
Far too many people relate the 20b swap to making big power. That should not always be the case. If you want a 20b, these are the reasons that make the swap worth it.
1. You want MORE reliable higher Hp. I don't care what anyone says, all things being equal, a 20b will make more reliable power at 350hp than any 13b.
2. You want more bottom end torque and more power through out the power range.
3. You want something exotic. There are only about 5000 20b's ever made
4. You want the sound! I'm a rotary nut but to me 20b's make 13b's sound like ****.
Now it will cost you a lot of money just to achieve this so yea that's why tons of people say it isn't worth it unless you making huge power. I completely disagree. Getting the engine in the car and running is the hard part. There is nothing that says you have to go full ***** to the wall your 1st time out (if you DIY). Take things slow. The power can always be made later. If you really wanna do the swap, do as much research as you possibly can.
Me I bought a 20b engine 4 months after buying my fd back in Jan 2003 with no earthy idea of how I would go about doing the swap. It wasn't till Mar of 07 that I actually began the swap. Nearly 4 years later I'm finally almost done. Why has it taken me so long? Money, planning and developing the necessary skills to engineer the swap exactly the way I want it. The planning and R&D takes up 90% of my time. I know that sounds crazy but it's true. I can't afford to pay someone else to do it. Mine is NA and the engine is moved back with-in the FD chassis (for perfect polar moment and balance). Actually the balance and feel will be better than the factory car because my engine sits lower in the engine bay and not higher and forward like others. Because of the engine placement, I had to build everything else from scratch. That includes a whole new intake to make the power I'm looking for. Subframe, headers, exhaust, fuel rails, tranny mounts, diff mounts, ect! I've never wired nor have I ever tuned an ecu before so I had to learn that also. Now I could have gone the easier route and bought a subframe and put the engine in the same location as all other fd owners do and had it running years ago with the factory intake. For me however, that wasn't enough of a challenge. I've also done a ton of body work in that time period. The engine actually fired up for the 1st time Nov 1st of 09 but then started developing intake leaks later on. It took me a while to figure that was why it was running lean because I leak tested it the 1st start. Troubleshooting is another challenge you will face. Since my engine sits so far back in the engine bay, I have to move the engine forward to remove the intake. Pretty annoying! So I decided to pull the whole thing and build a test stand to run the engine on it while it's out of the car. I've since modified the intake to make it easier to remove in the future. So yea this is just an example of the things you face while doing engine swaps. Bottom line, engine swaps are about patience and determination. Good luck!
1. You want MORE reliable higher Hp. I don't care what anyone says, all things being equal, a 20b will make more reliable power at 350hp than any 13b.
2. You want more bottom end torque and more power through out the power range.
3. You want something exotic. There are only about 5000 20b's ever made
4. You want the sound! I'm a rotary nut but to me 20b's make 13b's sound like ****.
Now it will cost you a lot of money just to achieve this so yea that's why tons of people say it isn't worth it unless you making huge power. I completely disagree. Getting the engine in the car and running is the hard part. There is nothing that says you have to go full ***** to the wall your 1st time out (if you DIY). Take things slow. The power can always be made later. If you really wanna do the swap, do as much research as you possibly can.
Me I bought a 20b engine 4 months after buying my fd back in Jan 2003 with no earthy idea of how I would go about doing the swap. It wasn't till Mar of 07 that I actually began the swap. Nearly 4 years later I'm finally almost done. Why has it taken me so long? Money, planning and developing the necessary skills to engineer the swap exactly the way I want it. The planning and R&D takes up 90% of my time. I know that sounds crazy but it's true. I can't afford to pay someone else to do it. Mine is NA and the engine is moved back with-in the FD chassis (for perfect polar moment and balance). Actually the balance and feel will be better than the factory car because my engine sits lower in the engine bay and not higher and forward like others. Because of the engine placement, I had to build everything else from scratch. That includes a whole new intake to make the power I'm looking for. Subframe, headers, exhaust, fuel rails, tranny mounts, diff mounts, ect! I've never wired nor have I ever tuned an ecu before so I had to learn that also. Now I could have gone the easier route and bought a subframe and put the engine in the same location as all other fd owners do and had it running years ago with the factory intake. For me however, that wasn't enough of a challenge. I've also done a ton of body work in that time period. The engine actually fired up for the 1st time Nov 1st of 09 but then started developing intake leaks later on. It took me a while to figure that was why it was running lean because I leak tested it the 1st start. Troubleshooting is another challenge you will face. Since my engine sits so far back in the engine bay, I have to move the engine forward to remove the intake. Pretty annoying! So I decided to pull the whole thing and build a test stand to run the engine on it while it's out of the car. I've since modified the intake to make it easier to remove in the future. So yea this is just an example of the things you face while doing engine swaps. Bottom line, engine swaps are about patience and determination. Good luck!
Last edited by T-von; 09-17-2010 at 03:22 PM.
09-20-2010, 01:57 AM
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$20K is awfully generous, when it's all said and done...
T-von, I agree with you but, this is only for those who ACTUALLY know what they're getting themselves into.
OP, accept the advice and if you do decide to go through with it, this would still be a great project. GOODLUCK!
T-von, I agree with you but, this is only for those who ACTUALLY know what they're getting themselves into.
OP, accept the advice and if you do decide to go through with it, this would still be a great project. GOODLUCK!
Last edited by bhop; 09-20-2010 at 02:01 AM.
09-20-2010, 10:08 AM
#19
Far too many people relate the 20b swap to making big power. That should not always be the case. If you want a 20b, these are the reasons that make the swap worth it.
1. You want MORE reliable higher Hp. I don't care what anyone says, all things being equal, a 20b will make more reliable power at 350hp than any 13b.
2. You want more bottom end torque and more power through out the power range.
3. You want something exotic. There are only about 5000 20b's ever made
4. You want the sound! I'm a rotary nut but to me 20b's make 13b's sound like ****.
Now it will cost you a lot of money just to achieve this so yea that's why tons of people say it isn't worth it unless you making huge power. I completely disagree. Getting the engine in the car and running is the hard part. There is nothing that says you have to go full ***** to the wall your 1st time out (if you DIY). Take things slow. The power can always be made later. If you really wanna do the swap, do as much research as you possibly can.
Me I bought a 20b engine 4 months after buying my fd back in Jan 2003 with no earthy idea of how I would go about doing the swap. It wasn't till Mar of 07 that I actually began the swap. Nearly 4 years later I'm finally almost done. Why has it taken me so long? Money, planning and developing the necessary skills to engineer the swap exactly the way I want it. The planning and R&D takes up 90% of my time. I know that sounds crazy but it's true. I can't afford to pay someone else to do it. Mine is NA and the engine is moved back with-in the FD chassis (for perfect polar moment and balance). Actually the balance and feel will be better than the factory car because my engine sits lower in the engine bay and not higher and forward like others. Because of the engine placement, I had to build everything else from scratch. That includes a whole new intake to make the power I'm looking for. Subframe, headers, exhaust, fuel rails, tranny mounts, diff mounts, ect! I've never wired nor have I ever tuned an ecu before so I had to learn that also. Now I could have gone the easier route and bought a subframe and put the engine in the same location as all other fd owners do and had it running years ago with the factory intake. For me however, that wasn't enough of a challenge. I've also done a ton of body work in that time period. The engine actually fired up for the 1st time Nov 1st of 09 but then started developing intake leaks later on. It took me a while to figure that was why it was running lean because I leak tested it the 1st start. Troubleshooting is another challenge you will face. Since my engine sits so far back in the engine bay, I have to move the engine forward to remove the intake. Pretty annoying! So I decided to pull the whole thing and build a test stand to run the engine on it while it's out of the car. I've since modified the intake to make it easier to remove in the future. So yea this is just an example of the things you face while doing engine swaps. Bottom line, engine swaps are about patience and determination. Good luck!
1. You want MORE reliable higher Hp. I don't care what anyone says, all things being equal, a 20b will make more reliable power at 350hp than any 13b.
2. You want more bottom end torque and more power through out the power range.
3. You want something exotic. There are only about 5000 20b's ever made
4. You want the sound! I'm a rotary nut but to me 20b's make 13b's sound like ****.
Now it will cost you a lot of money just to achieve this so yea that's why tons of people say it isn't worth it unless you making huge power. I completely disagree. Getting the engine in the car and running is the hard part. There is nothing that says you have to go full ***** to the wall your 1st time out (if you DIY). Take things slow. The power can always be made later. If you really wanna do the swap, do as much research as you possibly can.
Me I bought a 20b engine 4 months after buying my fd back in Jan 2003 with no earthy idea of how I would go about doing the swap. It wasn't till Mar of 07 that I actually began the swap. Nearly 4 years later I'm finally almost done. Why has it taken me so long? Money, planning and developing the necessary skills to engineer the swap exactly the way I want it. The planning and R&D takes up 90% of my time. I know that sounds crazy but it's true. I can't afford to pay someone else to do it. Mine is NA and the engine is moved back with-in the FD chassis (for perfect polar moment and balance). Actually the balance and feel will be better than the factory car because my engine sits lower in the engine bay and not higher and forward like others. Because of the engine placement, I had to build everything else from scratch. That includes a whole new intake to make the power I'm looking for. Subframe, headers, exhaust, fuel rails, tranny mounts, diff mounts, ect! I've never wired nor have I ever tuned an ecu before so I had to learn that also. Now I could have gone the easier route and bought a subframe and put the engine in the same location as all other fd owners do and had it running years ago with the factory intake. For me however, that wasn't enough of a challenge. I've also done a ton of body work in that time period. The engine actually fired up for the 1st time Nov 1st of 09 but then started developing intake leaks later on. It took me a while to figure that was why it was running lean because I leak tested it the 1st start. Troubleshooting is another challenge you will face. Since my engine sits so far back in the engine bay, I have to move the engine forward to remove the intake. Pretty annoying! So I decided to pull the whole thing and build a test stand to run the engine on it while it's out of the car. I've since modified the intake to make it easier to remove in the future. So yea this is just an example of the things you face while doing engine swaps. Bottom line, engine swaps are about patience and determination. Good luck!
In my case by the time I bought the engine, refreshed it, pinned it, ported it, bought haltech, blasters, fuel pumps, turbo, clutch, waste gate, blow off and anything I needed to start the car, I was already down with more tan 15G's. I spent over 2 grand in hoses and fittings. A couple of weeks after that my first tranny went, and then the clutch and another tranny and another clutc and so on, I ended up upgrading everything on the powetrain. So I really dont think its as simple as just doing the swap. Unless he is going to have it as a show car. Mine was swaped to enjoy it and I enjoy every second on it as its going to be my last. BUT, with my mentality has gone well over 50G's.. haha but I LOVE IT...
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