5W30 Oil Don't Cut it, Engine Bearing Pics 58K S1 RX-8 from England.
11-20-2009, 08:52 AM
#751
Apparently not - as has been stated by several S1 owners, myself included, our oil coolers begin to warm almost immediately.
So, either there is a difference between a Euro-spec and other cars, which seems unlikely, or the oil thermostat is very unreliable?
Do we need another Mazsport kit for this?
So, either there is a difference between a Euro-spec and other cars, which seems unlikely, or the oil thermostat is very unreliable?
Do we need another Mazsport kit for this?
11-20-2009, 09:36 AM
#753
Alright. The mystery is solved (At least for me anyway). The cooler has flow all the way through but it's bypass is open until certain temps. I examined them with Oldman Engman last night.
Paul.
Paul.
11-20-2009, 11:16 AM
#756
it will always have to be a flow control type thermostat. It cannot be like a coolant thermostat in which it only opens at a certain point.
cold oil shock is a real deal.
imho i wish it could rise to at least to 160f in a shorter period of time. it gets to 140F ok but it takes a while to get any hotter.
I have my 2nd radiator unplugged for these cooler months. so coolant temps are not holding it down. coolant gets to 160 F Ok
od
cold oil shock is a real deal.
imho i wish it could rise to at least to 160f in a shorter period of time. it gets to 140F ok but it takes a while to get any hotter.
I have my 2nd radiator unplugged for these cooler months. so coolant temps are not holding it down. coolant gets to 160 F Ok
od
11-20-2009, 12:03 PM
#757
it will always have to be a flow control type thermostat. It cannot be like a coolant thermostat in which it only opens at a certain point.
cold oil shock is a real deal.
imho i wish it could rise to at least to 160f in a shorter period of time. it gets to 140F ok but it takes a while to get any hotter.
I have my 2nd radiator unplugged for these cooler months. so coolant temps are not holding it down. coolant gets to 160 F Ok
od
cold oil shock is a real deal.
imho i wish it could rise to at least to 160f in a shorter period of time. it gets to 140F ok but it takes a while to get any hotter.
I have my 2nd radiator unplugged for these cooler months. so coolant temps are not holding it down. coolant gets to 160 F Ok
od
Paul.
11-20-2009, 01:50 PM
#760
The PIA with modding cars...at an early stage anyway...is the constant learning what works....
With the older Rotaries..there is a lot of pre-existing, almost cookie cutter things to do to get to a certain endpoint
This engine/platform keeps giving us new surprises at every turn
A lot like the FD's I guess.... When they first came out everyone said that you couldn't get 400HP out of them...and now look at what is common
With the older Rotaries..there is a lot of pre-existing, almost cookie cutter things to do to get to a certain endpoint
This engine/platform keeps giving us new surprises at every turn
A lot like the FD's I guess.... When they first came out everyone said that you couldn't get 400HP out of them...and now look at what is common
11-20-2009, 06:12 PM
#762
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it will always have to be a flow control type thermostat. It cannot be like a coolant thermostat in which it only opens at a certain point.
cold oil shock is a real deal.
imho i wish it could rise to at least to 160f in a shorter period of time. it gets to 140F ok but it takes a while to get any hotter.
I have my 2nd radiator unplugged for these cooler months. so coolant temps are not holding it down. coolant gets to 160 F Ok
od
cold oil shock is a real deal.
imho i wish it could rise to at least to 160f in a shorter period of time. it gets to 140F ok but it takes a while to get any hotter.
I have my 2nd radiator unplugged for these cooler months. so coolant temps are not holding it down. coolant gets to 160 F Ok
od
I know that it's important to reach a certain temp in order for the oil to meet the specs listed on the manufacturer's datasheet. But is this truly a big deal? You obviously would want to run an engine hard with oil temps being cold/warm, but when oil is 20 or 30 degrees below what is spec rated, is this a huge concern?
11-20-2009, 06:20 PM
#763
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btw, I was just in SA earlier this week, and I saw a red 8 on stone oak pkwy & 281. One thing I learned is that people down there love their 350Zs.
11-21-2009, 12:29 AM
#764
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Thread Starter
Thanks Paul...confirms what I thought and felt!!
11-21-2009, 01:01 AM
#765
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Yes I remember your S2... Maybe that has a different thermostat, as there are a lot of differences in the oil system S2 vs S1.
The information is in my European Service Book, i don't speak german, but i could not get the English version. Otherwise I'm registrated in the newest WEB Mazda Service Program (MESI), but there aren't any information about the coolers thermostat.
My oil coolers are always cold (by hand) if the oil temps (by my gauge) are below 158F. I think the thermostat are fully opened at 194F, but they start to open at lower temps (as usually every thermostat).
Strange that you feel them warm 1 min after cold start! S2 thing???
The information is in my European Service Book, i don't speak german, but i could not get the English version. Otherwise I'm registrated in the newest WEB Mazda Service Program (MESI), but there aren't any information about the coolers thermostat.
My oil coolers are always cold (by hand) if the oil temps (by my gauge) are below 158F. I think the thermostat are fully opened at 194F, but they start to open at lower temps (as usually every thermostat).
Strange that you feel them warm 1 min after cold start! S2 thing???
11-23-2009, 02:32 AM
#766
Ayrton Senna Forever
I checked it again yesterday, my oil coolers are absolutely cold in a lot of situation..... after cold start (for 10-15min), directly after cruising (not hard drive), under 165F oil temps (by gauge).
11-23-2009, 02:27 PM
#767
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Anyway....the same parts as every other country.
The "C" supersedes to the "D" in both coolers, and that was very early in the RX-8's production and did not change at all in every year right up to Series 2, which is a different by Part Number.
The C to D production build date "change" was July 1st, 2003. Which was only the first 310 cars made!!, then Mazda used the 'D" coolers.
Can't tell your the Difference they are "AN" interchangeable, New for Old, but not Old for New.
And what are the chances you have one of the first 310 RX-8's ever made?
11-24-2009, 02:56 AM
#770
Ayrton Senna Forever
Strange....
Anyway....the same parts as every other country.
The "C" supersedes to the "D" in both coolers, and that was very early in the RX-8's production and did not change at all in every year right up to Series 2, which is a different by Part Number.
The C to D production build date "change" was July 1st, 2003. Which was only the first 310 cars made!!, then Mazda used the 'D" coolers.
Can't tell your the Difference they are "AN" interchangeable, New for Old, but not Old for New.
And what are the chances you have one of the first 310 RX-8's ever made?
Anyway....the same parts as every other country.
The "C" supersedes to the "D" in both coolers, and that was very early in the RX-8's production and did not change at all in every year right up to Series 2, which is a different by Part Number.
The C to D production build date "change" was July 1st, 2003. Which was only the first 310 cars made!!, then Mazda used the 'D" coolers.
Can't tell your the Difference they are "AN" interchangeable, New for Old, but not Old for New.
And what are the chances you have one of the first 310 RX-8's ever made?
So the coolers are the same in world wide. It is the second X file, why my coolers are very often cold. I check it almost every day.
Actually I hardly got above 156F oil temp with cruising yesterday. The outside temp was 41F.
The first X file was why PhillipM has 90 PSI max pressure, but there is a new one, as 9krpmrx8 got the same max oil pressure.
They have modified oil coolers system. Why has it affect on the rear regulator's opening (max) pressure, I don't know?
11-30-2009, 03:08 AM
#771
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Thread Starter
Thanks Ash. Yes, the first 310 one were "C", mine is already "D".
So the coolers are the same in world wide. It is the second X file, why my coolers are very often cold. I check it almost every day.
Actually I hardly got above 156F oil temp with cruising yesterday. The outside temp was 41F.
The first X file was why PhillipM has 90 PSI max pressure, but there is a new one, as 9krpmrx8 got the same max oil pressure.
They have modified oil coolers system. Why has it affect on the rear regulator's opening (max) pressure, I don't know?
So the coolers are the same in world wide. It is the second X file, why my coolers are very often cold. I check it almost every day.
Actually I hardly got above 156F oil temp with cruising yesterday. The outside temp was 41F.
The first X file was why PhillipM has 90 PSI max pressure, but there is a new one, as 9krpmrx8 got the same max oil pressure.
They have modified oil coolers system. Why has it affect on the rear regulator's opening (max) pressure, I don't know?
11-30-2009, 05:49 AM
#772
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No, mine's not just a modded oil cooler, it's a complete new system, hoses, oil cooler, etc.
I'm on big oil lines - dash 12 bore - and a huge free-flowing oil cooler originally designed for a 600bhp truck...
I would say the increase in flow from removing the evidently large restriction in the factory oil-cooling circuit has allowed enough flow to the rear bypass to lift the pressure, you have to remember that even if the bypass does start to crack open at 72.5psi, it's not going to allow much flow at that slight opening.
What's evident is that both me and 9krpmrx8 have got much more oil flow through our system as a result, which may be why I didn't see any of the bearing issues on my engine that everyone else is reporting, my engine has been running this system since it was ~3000 miles old.
I'm on big oil lines - dash 12 bore - and a huge free-flowing oil cooler originally designed for a 600bhp truck...
I would say the increase in flow from removing the evidently large restriction in the factory oil-cooling circuit has allowed enough flow to the rear bypass to lift the pressure, you have to remember that even if the bypass does start to crack open at 72.5psi, it's not going to allow much flow at that slight opening.
What's evident is that both me and 9krpmrx8 have got much more oil flow through our system as a result, which may be why I didn't see any of the bearing issues on my engine that everyone else is reporting, my engine has been running this system since it was ~3000 miles old.
12-22-2009, 05:05 AM
#773
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We see spun bearings in Rx8 engines we have stripped. Looks to me like the oil becomes heavily contaminated with petrol after the owner has continually flodded the engine trying to start it. It doesn't seem to be a problem that is dependant on oil choice as the results of that would never be seen. The bearings are tossed long before you could see any oil selection problems. The blow-by rings are always jammed solid with carbon as are the exhaust ports.
Top tip:
1. Change the oil if you fail to start your engine
2. Thrash the nuts off it when it's up to temperature to try and shift some of the carbon
Matt
RoTechniks
Top tip:
1. Change the oil if you fail to start your engine
2. Thrash the nuts off it when it's up to temperature to try and shift some of the carbon
Matt
RoTechniks
12-22-2009, 07:11 AM
#774
We see spun bearings in Rx8 engines we have stripped. Looks to me like the oil becomes heavily contaminated with petrol after the owner has continually flodded the engine trying to start it. It doesn't seem to be a problem that is dependant on oil choice as the results of that would never be seen. The bearings are tossed long before you could see any oil selection problems. The blow-by rings are always jammed solid with carbon as are the exhaust ports.
Top tip:
1. Change the oil if you fail to start your engine
2. Thrash the nuts off it when it's up to temperature to try and shift some of the carbon
Matt
RoTechniks
Top tip:
1. Change the oil if you fail to start your engine
2. Thrash the nuts off it when it's up to temperature to try and shift some of the carbon
Matt
RoTechniks
Paul.
12-22-2009, 12:31 PM
#775
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As it's probably not wise to mix both 2-stroke oil and detergent/cleaners with your gas, the most ideal way to prevent carbon buildup IMO is with water/meth injection. It would be nice to see just how effective this solution is in the renesis.