That's not what I gathered from his post at all. Once again, you're trying to make this more difficult than it is.

For my final answer I point to the pictures you see below:



The first you see are the stock plug wires. The trailing plug wires, as you can see in the picture, have blue and green on them to indicate that they are trailing plug wires. Also notice that, in relation to the leading plug wires, they are shorter.



It's not the biggest picture but these are the NGK plug wires. Remember that the stock plugs use color to distinguish between the leading and trailing plug wires. NGK has done this as well. Need further proof? Look at the length difference between the two colors. The black/blue wires are SHORTER than the solid blue.

Stock trailing plug wires = Multi-colored and shorter than the leading wires.
NGK trailing plug wires = Multi-colored and shorter than the leading wires.

I rest my case. If from this post you are still not convinced then I strongly recommend you call NGK and ask them.

 

Wow, this is becoming laborious. You know how I mentioned in my last post that I try extremely hard to understand what others are thinking? Well, I didn't mention that I wish the same would be reciprocated. But I already know the real world doesn't work this way, LOL. Maybe it's me, maybe I could describe what I mean more clearly. But God knows I try like heck. Along these lines, I use words very precisely and my writing really requires the reader to scrutinize precisely instead of skim. Conversely, I realize that most people are not precise enough in their language but, instead of getting confused without being aware, I identify their confusing language, which is exactly what I'm trying to do in this thread.

I understand EXACTLY what you are saying, but apparently you (and others) don't understand what I'm saying. But that's ok, I'm not dissing on you guys at all; I'm just continuing to try to clarify things.

You simply went by relative length across brands (stock vs NGK). Isn't that what I said (post #2 and #22)? In fact length is what I would look at when I install my NGK wires. With regard to within-brand length, my NGK wires are exactly like yours (except mine also come with numbers). The reason things went pretty easy for you is precisely because you matched lengths across brands and saw a pattern. Two points here. First, you didn't mention you compared relative length between NGK and stock until your post #26. When you compared the lengths of the stock vs the NGK, you saw a pattern based on color. Your NGK wires didn't even have numbers, which would have been another factor to consider (but its role in distinguishing front vs back rotor would have been fairly easy to determine). Even though you mention in post #18 that all the wires fit pretty well in length, it's not clear in that post that you actually compared across the two brands and instead it seems you're saying you just hooked them up to the coils and ran them down their length to a spark plug, which is a huge risk that I can see some people taking. Some brands of wires are not cut very precisely, as has been mentioned in some threads in this forum. Of course, you didn't do this but your post #18 seems to suggest you did, right? Second, for people who don't look at relative length across brands, there is no way to know for sure how to connect without incurring risk. What would these people do then? Well, they would look at the shop manual diagram, which because it doesn't mention any specific labels would thus seem to suggest all four wires are equivalent, right? This scenario is the complexity I keep talking about- when comparing relative length between stock and NGK is not used.

Finally, there is ABSOLUTELY a difference between what you said and what Paul said. You are saying that the color is an important factor. Specifically, you are saying that the black NGK wires (what you call multi-colored) MUST BE CONNECTED to the trailing plugs. Now please re-read carefully what Paul wrote. There is a difference in phrasing (black, blue, multi-colored, black-and-blue, black ends/boots, blue ends/boots) but if you study Paul's words when he says "NGK is using black and blue to indicate 'lead' and 'trail' positions", anyway you choose to look at his phrasing, there is only one conclusion: Paul is saying that the BLUE wires (i.e., the ALL BLUE wires or the BLUE-END wires) need to be connected to the trailing plugs. Further, if you are suggesting that Paul wasn't being specific when describing the colors (in terms of which color to leading vs trailing), then why is he so specific when describing the numbers? I believe he intended to maintain PARALLEL FORM in his writing. With such an important factor as is the color (as I now know from you), why wouldn't he be specific?

There is one basic conclusion: color is critical for leading vs trailing [you and Paul (Paul seems to say this without saying it explicitly) both say this]. There is one practical conclusion: without absolutely precise labels/instructions (e.g., coils numbered 1-4 on the diagram, spark plugs numbered 1-4 on the diagram, and wires numbered 1-4), one way to figure things out is to use comparative lengths vs brand vs color vs number and look for a pattern. There are two possible conclusions regarding what you say vs what Paul says: (1) you and Paul are in direct opposition and one is wrong or (2) someone made an error in typing and assigning color, which any human can do.

Now I rest MY case! BTW I was actually going to type that even before you typed it in your last post.

 

Is the question here whether or not there is a different in wire design between leading and trailing?

If so, the answer is no there is no difference.

The only difference with the wires is length. Manufacturers use different methods to label the wires for their positions from numbers to colors and sometimes both. With BHR, we mark our wires with numbers to show their position so people don't install the wrong wire lengths.

You guys are seriously over-thinking this. Cars are designed to be put together by people that must perform their job within 30 second to a minute and do so with a 3rd grade education.

We can argue semantics all day, the fact is that the wires are all the same but differ by fitted length.

 

BINGO! Thanks, Flashwing. I mentioned on page 1 REPEATEDLY that no one has directly answered the question whether there are two different kinds of wires, one for leading and one for trailing. But now Flashwing has.

If someone says definitively that there are two different kinds of wires, then we can infer some things about color, number, length.

If someone says definitively that there are not two different kinds of wires, as Flashwing has asserted, then there are no inferences to be made from color, number, or length. Length would only be relevant in a purely practical sense.

If someone doesn't say one way or another, then the situation is very complex in that BACKWARD inferences, which is what RWatters tries to do in post #26 when he tries to infer that the NGK multi-colored (black ends/boots) are specifically for the trailing plugs, are very difficult to make. We were lucky to see evidence of this because Paul presented the opposite scenario when Paul gave instructions to connect the blue-end wires to the trailing plugs. However, unlike RWatters, Paul never explicitly asserted that the blue-end wires MUST be connected to the trailing and Paul never asserted that color is critical!

I completely and accurately account for these possibilities in my post #22! In that post, I even state that if there is no typing error by Paul, then color is not an indicator of anything (what Flashwing has definitively asserted). I even go further to state that, in that case, color is just a "helper" guide to help us keep track of things and stay consistent (what Flashwing has also asserted).

Now I'm 100% vindicated by Flashwing. And no one should think I disagreed with Paul; he didn't make an erroneous statement with regard to the NGK wires. BUT Paul did make an erroneous statement with regard to me when he suggested I was confused and possibly not meant to be a mechanic (at the end of his post #23)! LOL. I would make an absolutely fantastic mechanic. I forgive you, Paul, but maybe this just means you will give me a discount on a rebuilt engine when the time comes!!!!

Now, for reals, I rest my WINNING case.

 

Actually, I'm going to help vindicate RWatters now, so there's no hard feelings. I've just reviewed RWatters posts and he, like Paul, did not make an explicit statement that one color MUST connect to either leading or trailing. He comes closest to doing this in post #26 with the "equals" signs but he doesn't quite commit because overall it can be seen/interpreted as that RWatters is merely describing a wire connecting scheme that fits nicely, works, and didn't blow up his engine.

But I accounted for that all along in my posts. I even say when I connect my own NGK wires, I'll just go with the practical instructions and not think about it too hard. In other words, I fully understand and understood all along that in order to successfully connect my NGK wires, I don't need to answer the question: Are there differently-designed wires for the leading vs the trailing plugs?

However, that question was actually broached by the OP. I realized it was a legitimate question and so I asked it repeatedly but never got an answer until finally Flashwing answered it directly. That question is completely separate from and independent of some practical instructions. But that doesn't mean the question is not worthwhile on its own merit. Seeking an answer to that question has nothing whatsoever to do with over-complicating things unnecessarily. Now it appears that others were confused about the separate topics and thought I was confused, but the reality is that I wasn't in the least bit confused.

 

The problem came from my language. I was in fact not being "Linear" in my description. I was not saying that the black was lead or trail but rather, the colors are used for those positions (Upper and lower, lower and upper, lead and trail, trail and lead) rather than front and rear.

Arxate,

You must be a lawyer

Paul.

 

There are no hard feelings. My head nearly exploded but there are no hard feelings. lol

 

Ha ha! Too funny. Do you think Arxate has children? If so, their lives are full of entertainment I'm sure.

Paul.

 

dude ... no worries ... you just need to upgrade your spark plugs to these ... http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main...&products_id=5

If that doesn't work, you can always get this ... http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main...products_id=15


Sorry guys ... I could not help myself

 

So hypothetically speaking let's well not not even. I installed my wires By what I thought was length but not color coded. I did it one by one so I know the spark goes to the right coil. Will this message up my car?

 

Only if the message is "POWWA!!!"

You did it the right way.
One old wire gets taken off, matched up to the same size replacement wire, which then gets installed into the old wire's position. Then you repeat the procedure for the remaining 3 wires.

It's not nearly as difficult as these people made the issue sound when the thread was created back in August of 2010.

BC.

 

I still haven't gotten my car started. Tomorrow I'm taking the bottom plugs out and cranking it and hoping to deflood it.

 

Hi All

Was searching this post since just replacing my coils, plugs and leads. I used to get a slight misfire just at idle but my hot start problems became a nightmare. Even when using the pedal to the floor de-flood technique. Basically I could not refuel without a 20 min wait to cool down. I could only get one start from my 8 until it cooled. My local fuel station are starting to hate me blocking their pumps.

So I first replaced the coils one by one and continued to use my stock leads and plugs for 2 days because I ran out of daylight. Start up was now much quicker with just the new coils fitted and much more positive but it still bumbled a bit on idle.

So Friday I switched out my leads and plugs. I used the NKG set like in this post. I also have 2 with black ends (a one and a two marked) and 2 all blue (a one and a two marked).

I swapped them one at a time so not to confuse myself but think I mismatched when using common sense to compare the wire length against stock length. They were all longer on the NKG set.

It now only starts when cold again but I have a loss of power and a much bigger misfire than before now even when driving. My hot start problem is also back. My stock leads looked very brittle and crispy.

Mine now go: blue 2, black 2, blue 1, black 1 from front to back when looking at the coil end. I did them one by one so the plug ends must be in correct order to the correct coil. Logic would imply the numbering and colours are wrong though.

Could somebody with these leads fitted and working please state the correct order I am sure mine are wrong. My 8 has now done 35k miles but was fully serviced when previous owner had it.

Many thanks

 

Ok in answer to my own post I applied logic.


I checked all my plugs and they were all fitted correct L and T. So I looked at my wires. They were also connecting the correct coil to plug with snug fitment at both ends. I pulled them all off and reapplied as follows:


Blue 1, Black 1, Blue 2, Black 2 from front to back. The 2's were the longer wires so I put both 1s at the front.


Took my 8 for a spin to warm up. My engine management light flicked on the first time I put the hammer down which it did yesterday too but then went off and stayed off. I am shocked lead length made so much difference but my car now idles better than ever and I now have got my power back. But I still can't restart it when its warm/hot


I can start if I de flood it by turning over for 10 seconds with foot to the floor. So new coils, leads and plugs but I still have hot start problems. My battery and alternator read they are both working. I am scared my engine seals are fried.


I used to be able to get maybe 2-3 hot starts out of her a year back but now I cant get any.

 

@mafadecay: If u changed the coils too ... check for the coil plugs ... sometimes ... the plug connection on the coil is the culprit. Check that all of the three small rond waterproofing rubber plugs in the back of the coil plug (where the wire comes out) are flush with the plug plastic ... if the stand out .. remove the plug ... correct the plug seating... then re-insert into the coil while holding the wires in the back of the plug.


Hope that helps .. and sorry for my bad english ...

Greetings
Thomas

Edit: ohh .. and get a compression test ... it's cheap .. and you know whats going on in the engine. If it fails u maybe get some more miles out of it with heavy pre-mixing ... but may be better to get a rebuild before it fails completely.

 

Thank you Thomas for your kind reply. Your English is very good my friend.


I was a bit unsure the coil plugs were seated properly. I checked them too as they all look to be out too far for my liking. I pushed them until they locked in.


My new coils worked a bit better for 2 days until I swapped the plugs and leads. Then it got much worse.


I think I will see if there is a Mazda recall upgrade on my ECU as there is not one mentioned in the service history. Second I would not even know where to get a compression test locally in the UK. Most local garages say they wouldn't touch an 8 as too complicated.


I would not even know how much to pay for a compression test or a rebuild here in Powys in the UK.

 

I have these wires (Pic 1) I also included diagram of how I have them fitted on my RX8 now (Incorrectly Pic 2).







Coils are replaced and all was worked with old leads. But for good measure I swapped my plugs and wires. Now my misfire is really bad. I checked all the plugs are in the correct T & L holes and each wire goes from the correct coil to correct plug but I think I have used the wrong wire length. two have a 1 marked and the other two are marked with a 2.


Can somebody with these wires please tell me which order the wires should be in before my car dies. My misfire is bad and I have massive power loss.

Thanks in advance.