ello13

I'm looking at buying a used 6 speed 04' with about 20,000 miles on it. Besides driving it and knowing when the clutch is about to give out, how do I know how much life is left in the clutch? I'm a pretty new and inexperienced manual driver, so if we took it to a sho, could they tell me whether the clutch is going to last for a while or not? How much would such a checkup be? Would it be included in a full checkup at any mechanic? I'm wondeirng how much a nonrotary mechanic can tell me about the car. I know the only different is really the rotary engine. Thanks

Phantom Menace

Normally, clutches show signs of death by loosing the "play" you have in engaging it. That is, as it starts to die the clutch will engage a lot sooner than normally. For example, instead of biting at maybe 2 inches (example) from the floor, it wants to engage around 3/4-1" from the floor. Then after it's got one foot in the grave--so to speak--it becomes very hard to engage. That is you gotta ride the crap out of it before it takes hold. Then after that even, it just fails to let you change gears or ginds.

In a previous car, I had a clutch die on me in the middle span of the Oakland/SF bay bridge. Not pretty. I couldn't get into 3rd and was kicking (literally) the stuff out of the shift **** to try and force it into gear so I could merge out of the Treasure Island on ramp. Made sounds I don't ever want to hear.

Unfortunatley, the 8's clutch is a bit weird. My first time driving this car--and I've been driving stick for over 12 years--I felt as if I've never driven a stick before. Although a tad bit soft, the 8's clutch is VERY forgiving and will do almost anything to keep from stalling or jerking. So, its harder to tell. Midas charges like $180.00 for a full diagnostic. Way too much if you don't have a hook-up. Buy, yes. You can drive it till the clutch stops engaging or becomes very difficult to work with. Then replace it. With 20k mi. the clutch should still be okay--unless the guy was a "Fast & Furious Tokyo Drift Wanna-be!"

Razz1

Clutches get stiff and are harder to push in as they wear.

Try a new RX-8 clutch in the lot, then walk over to the used one.

Ahh.... I know someone who rides the clutch, and also Auto-X.
Has 43k miles and took it apart for a flywheel install. Sure it's worn alot but feels good and should last thousands of more miles.

If the clutch has been abused, then most likely the car too. Walk away from the deal.

zenmoused

You could see if it's slipping, which usually means you don't have much time left. When you're going up a hill, have it in the highest gear that it can easily drive in. Stamp the gas down quickly while you're in gear. If the rpms rise quickly a little and then fall, your clutch is slipping.

Then again you could always ask the age of the person who drove those first 20k. If they're a teenager, walk away.

Razz1

You mean you would actually believe the dealer?

ken-x8

Both of those could happen, but I think are backwards from most normal clutch wear.

As a clutch wears, the free play at the top of the stroke decreases, and the clutch will disengage before the pedal goes all the way down. When engaging the clutch, it won't bite until the pedal is higher than when new.

The 8 has a hydraulic clutch linkage, which I presume is self-adjusting, so the free play and bite height won't really change as the disk wears - although slip could change the bite height. You might be able to tell clutch wear by measuring the position of the thowout lever. Don't know if that's possible on the 8, but it was on one car I owned with a hydraulic linkage. The manual for that car even had a little table relating a specific measurement to percent of clutch wear.

If the springs in the pressure plate show signs of age, they'll usually soften, causing reduced pedal force.

If the car won't go into gear, or always grinds shoving it in, then the clutch is gone. Something is broken: maybe the springs on one side of the pressure plate have failed, or the disk is warped, or something equally fatal.

Ken

corners

Hydraulically actuated clutches actually get stiffer in the pedal as the disc wears, due to loss of mechanical advantage levering against the pressure plate springs. It is really rare to lose spring pressure unless you have overheated the clutch and ruined the temper on the springs. I've changed clutches that were over 30 years old that still had plenty of spring left in the pressure plate.

ken-x8

What causes the loss in mechanical advantage? Change in geometry as it adjusts?

I agree that the springs shouldn't really soften unless the clutch has overheated. I had one car where a previous owner had done that. It was a Chevy with a diaphragm type spring. Soft pedal, and the fingers were uneven, some of them a little blueish.

The clutch that came out of my Honda at 110,000 miles was a thing of beauty. Disk worn evenly, no discoloration, no depth left in the rivet holes - the corner of one rivet was just starting to polish. Pressure plate looked like it could have gone back in. All I had done over the years was to adjust it as the free play diminished and the bite point raised.

Ken

Spok

The clutch is one thing to be concerned about, though at 20K, unless it's been abused, it should be good for another 50 - 60K. If the clutch has been abused, and there really is no way to tell sometimes except to take it apart, then other parts of the power train might be ready to "let go" too.

Another thing to be very concerned about, especially on an '04, is engine coolant leaks, both internal and external. If you search this site, you'll find there have been a lot of '04 owners who's engines developed coolant leaks that required engine replacement. Mine did at a bit over 10K. I was lucky that warranty covered it and the job was done well with not a dime out of my own pocket.

If you get any hints from the condition of the car, interior, exterior, under the hood, that it's been abused or not well cared for, I'd advise you walk away from it unless you're willing to handle the likely problems that will arise. There are plenty of used RX-8s on the market. Buy one that inspires your confidence.

Finally, if you do buy the one you're looking at now, and the engine does get replaced, browse this site to find out how to take care of your new engine.

Razz1

This can happen to any car.

you need an experinced car buyer to check the vehicle condition.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dpd6qZ9CZs

Bart!

My uncle has a 95 Toyota Supra with over 100k miles and is still on his original clutch, strong as ever.