BWD Coils? Anyone tried them out yet??
#26
#27
If you don't enjoy driving with a lightweight flywheel (after you take a day or so to get used to it) I will buy it from you. 99% of those who get them really like them.
Which two reasons, again? I forget where this conversation was going.........
#28
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I am curious also if one could buy the bracket to the ignition kit BHR sells seperately.
Also does the multiple spark discharge from the MSD coild have any ill effects on the Rotary. I only ask because they are designed for the LS2 and I'm concerned about the rotation of the rotor being in the wrong position at the time of the other sparks. I understand the purpose of the leading and trailing plug setup but I'm concerned that the extra sparks could put pressure on the rotor at the wrong time during its path of travel and actually cause problems.
Thanks in advance, and you shouldnt be so modest. It doesnt matter where you learned what you know, it's the fact that you do know it and you understand it enough to redesign and make an ignition setup that is much better than the factory setup. That says alot and def gets my respect.
#29
1) The two reasons I'm over thinking about the coils.
2) I am curious also if one could buy the bracket to the ignition kit BHR sells seperately.
3) Also does the multiple spark discharge from the MSD coild have any ill effects on the Rotary. I only ask because they are designed for the LS2 and I'm concerned about the rotation of the rotor being in the wrong position at the time of the other sparks. I understand the purpose of the leading and trailing plug setup but I'm concerned that the extra sparks could put pressure on the rotor at the wrong time during its path of travel and actually cause problems.
4) Thanks in advance, and you shouldnt be so modest. It doesnt matter where you learned what you know, it's the fact that you do know it and you understand it enough to redesign and make an ignition setup that is much better than the factory setup. That says alot and def gets my respect.
2) I am curious also if one could buy the bracket to the ignition kit BHR sells seperately.
3) Also does the multiple spark discharge from the MSD coild have any ill effects on the Rotary. I only ask because they are designed for the LS2 and I'm concerned about the rotation of the rotor being in the wrong position at the time of the other sparks. I understand the purpose of the leading and trailing plug setup but I'm concerned that the extra sparks could put pressure on the rotor at the wrong time during its path of travel and actually cause problems.
4) Thanks in advance, and you shouldnt be so modest. It doesnt matter where you learned what you know, it's the fact that you do know it and you understand it enough to redesign and make an ignition setup that is much better than the factory setup. That says alot and def gets my respect.
![Lol2](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/lol2.gif)
2) No. We sell our patent-pending harness and the plug wires needed for the GM coils separately, but nothing else.
3) Using the MSD 8247 coils was a popular and early mod (one that my associate, MazdaManiac pioneered) but those coils offer no actual performance benefit to, are more expensive than, and much larger than, the D585 coils we are using. Plus, the GM coils come with a 1-year warranty so we warranty our entire kit for a year or more. The "multiple spark" concept will not hurt the rotary but you are, in essence, paying for a feature which is useless on a rotary due to the leading and trailing coil set-up. Plus, that feature ceases operation at 3,000 RPMs.
4) Not everyone is as understanding or as conciliatory as you, Jaye. Thank you for saying so.
Last edited by Charles R. Hill; 06-04-2010 at 11:25 AM.
#30
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B) each rotation of the e-shaft in a rotary sees two firing pulses. One from the front rotor and one from the rear. Due to this arrangement/design, rotary engines electrically fire like a non-wasted-spark 4 cylinder engine.
2) No. We sell our patent-pending harness and the plug wires needed for the GM coils separately, but nothing else.
3) Using the MSD 8247 coils was a popular and early mod (one that my associate, MazdaManiac pioneered) but those coils offer no actual performance benefit to, are more expensive than, and much larger than, the D585 coils we are using. Plus, the GM coils come with a 1-year warranty so we warranty our entire kit for a year or more. The "multiple spark" concept will not hurt the rotary but you are, in essence, paying for a feature which is useless on a rotary due to the leading and trailing coil set-up. Plus, that feature ceases operation at 3,000 RPMs.
4) Not everyone is as understanding or as conciliatory as you, Jaye. Thank you for saying so.
2) No. We sell our patent-pending harness and the plug wires needed for the GM coils separately, but nothing else.
3) Using the MSD 8247 coils was a popular and early mod (one that my associate, MazdaManiac pioneered) but those coils offer no actual performance benefit to, are more expensive than, and much larger than, the D585 coils we are using. Plus, the GM coils come with a 1-year warranty so we warranty our entire kit for a year or more. The "multiple spark" concept will not hurt the rotary but you are, in essence, paying for a feature which is useless on a rotary due to the leading and trailing coil set-up. Plus, that feature ceases operation at 3,000 RPMs.
4) Not everyone is as understanding or as conciliatory as you, Jaye. Thank you for saying so.
1) That makes alot more since of things, So one rotor fires on leading and one on trailing I take it?
2) That sucks. Ive been debating on doing the conversion for some time and actually put together 4 of the gm coil pigtails I scavenged from a harness at work and I also have 4 of the coils laying around at home from doing the MSD swap (Hence why I asked about the MSD coils). I was hoping to just pick up a bracket and maybe some plug wires from you guys. I hate taking the time to fab something that I couldve picked up that would look alot better than what I made lol
4) No problem, Some people just dont value what a resource someone like you can be. A) You are extremely knowledgable and B) Unlike most people you are willing to share your knowledge with others, and then again some people are just a$$holes lol
#31
1) That makes alot more since of things, So one rotor fires on leading and one on trailing I take it?
2) That sucks. Ive been debating on doing the conversion for some time and actually put together 4 of the gm coil pigtails I scavenged from a harness at work and I also have 4 of the coils laying around at home from doing the MSD swap (Hence why I asked about the MSD coils). I was hoping to just pick up a bracket and maybe some plug wires from you guys. I hate taking the time to fab something that I couldve picked up that would look alot better than what I made lol
4) No problem, Some people just dont value what a resource someone like you can be. A) You are extremely knowledgable and B) Unlike most people you are willing to share your knowledge with others, and then again some people are just a$$holes lol
2) That sucks. Ive been debating on doing the conversion for some time and actually put together 4 of the gm coil pigtails I scavenged from a harness at work and I also have 4 of the coils laying around at home from doing the MSD swap (Hence why I asked about the MSD coils). I was hoping to just pick up a bracket and maybe some plug wires from you guys. I hate taking the time to fab something that I couldve picked up that would look alot better than what I made lol
4) No problem, Some people just dont value what a resource someone like you can be. A) You are extremely knowledgable and B) Unlike most people you are willing to share your knowledge with others, and then again some people are just a$$holes lol
2) Maybe Mazmart will sell you their water pump impeller only, since it is easy to get a new OEM pump assembly and possibly save a few bux. Maybe they will tell you who provides their thermostat, too, since it is essentially an off-the-shelf part. That way they can save you money. Maybe Racing Beat will tell us all who makes their resonators so we can simply all build our own versions of their midpipe. See where I am headed with this?
![Wink](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/wink.gif)
The point is that any company which designs and manufactures their own unique product, or even discovers a new application for an existing product, must invest time, money, and risk in order to make that product into a viable offering to the market. Then we must deal with administering the delivery of the product, proper installation (whether DIY or by a professional shop), any troubleshooting that may arise, and so on. This is why I like to invite people to come visit BHR's HQ for a few days. Of those who have accepted my invitation, 100% of them have a wholly new level of respect for that which ALL of we vendors on this forum deal with every day.
4) I will leave that one alone.
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Last edited by Charles R. Hill; 06-04-2010 at 04:09 PM.
#32
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[QUOTE=Charles R. Hill;3585698]1) Oh yeah. I had to re-read through my previous posts to get back on-track.
A) Marc (TheWulf) nailed the first part: GM runs their ignition systems in "wasted spark" mode which places 2x the electrical demand on the coils than normal for a piston engine. This serves the use of GM coils in a rotary pretty well because, B) each rotation of the e-shaft in a rotary sees two firing pulses. One from the front rotor and one from the rear. Due to this arrangement/design, rotary engines electrically fire like a non-wasted-spark 4 cylinder engine.QUOTE]
I got busy here and dont know what I was thinking here. I understand that they fire like a nonwasted spark 4 cyl but I'm confused.
Actually Wasted spark, which uses 2 spark plugs and wires per coil, pulses at the same time to fire on compression in one cyl and exhaust in opposing cyl, which you already know of course, but it is a common misconception that they run twice the current/voltage flow as it requires way less electrical energy to bridge the spark gap with no compression and since it arcs the opposite way on the plug. (You can see it on the labscope function on our StarScan scan tool on the Hemi which uses a wasted spark setup).
I'm confused too as to how GM can run wasted spark with only one plug and wire per coil.
![Lol2](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/lol2.gif)
I got busy here and dont know what I was thinking here. I understand that they fire like a nonwasted spark 4 cyl but I'm confused.
Actually Wasted spark, which uses 2 spark plugs and wires per coil, pulses at the same time to fire on compression in one cyl and exhaust in opposing cyl, which you already know of course, but it is a common misconception that they run twice the current/voltage flow as it requires way less electrical energy to bridge the spark gap with no compression and since it arcs the opposite way on the plug. (You can see it on the labscope function on our StarScan scan tool on the Hemi which uses a wasted spark setup).
I'm confused too as to how GM can run wasted spark with only one plug and wire per coil.
#33
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2) Maybe Mazmart will sell you their water pump impeller only, since it is easy to get a new OEM pump assemblya dnpossibly save a few bux. Maybe they will tell you who provides their thermostat, too, since it is essentially an off-the-shelf part. That way they can save you money. Maybe Racing Beat will tell us all who makes their resonators so we can simply all build our own versions of their midpipe. See where I am headed with this? ![Wink](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/wink.gif)
![Wink](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/wink.gif)
#34
Actually Wasted spark, which uses 2 spark plugs and wires per coil, pulses at the same time to fire on compression in one cyl and exhaust in opposing cyl, which you already know of course, but it is a common misconception that they run twice the current/voltage flow as it requires way less electrical energy to bridge the spark gap with no compression and since it arcs the opposite way on the plug. (You can see it on the labscope function on our StarScan scan tool on the Hemi which uses a wasted spark setup).
I'm confused too as to how GM can run wasted spark with only one plug and wire per coil.
I'm confused too as to how GM can run wasted spark with only one plug and wire per coil.
I have never heard of the "2x voltage/current" misconception, myself.
![Dunno](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/dunno.gif)
#35
The level of support received by our customers changes none whether it is the BHR Ignition System or an ACT clutch (or what have you) which was purchased. This direct support allows us to be taken far more seriously by other manufacturers because, if I hafta call them for help, it must be serious and they understand that. As a result, you get much quicker problem resolution than you would if you were to call the tech line, yourself. I don't call the tech lines, I call the product development managers, and I do so on YOUR behalf.
#36
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If GM pulses the coil a second time for the exhuast stroke wouldnt it be like regular coil only fired twice as much.
Please dont think I'm being an a$$hole, I dont doubt a word you are saying. I'm just curious how it works is all.
I was an electronic engineer before going back to school to turn wrenches, so the drivability side of how a car works really fascinates me. Thats also the reason I get stuck with all the problem cars at work lol.
#37
Atleast thats how they taught us in Chrysler classes. you can see it with a labscope on the Hemis setup which uses one coil per 2 plugs (2 plugs per cyl). Which fires the exhuast plug off the opposite side of the secondary coil.
If GM pulses the coil a second time for the exhuast stroke wouldnt it be like regular coil only fired twice as much.
Please dont think I'm being an a$$hole, I dont doubt a word you are saying. I'm just curious how it works is all.
I was an electronic engineer before going back to school to turn wrenches, so the drivability side of how a car works really fascinates me. Thats also the reason I get stuck with all the problem cars at work lol.
If GM pulses the coil a second time for the exhuast stroke wouldnt it be like regular coil only fired twice as much.
Please dont think I'm being an a$$hole, I dont doubt a word you are saying. I'm just curious how it works is all.
I was an electronic engineer before going back to school to turn wrenches, so the drivability side of how a car works really fascinates me. Thats also the reason I get stuck with all the problem cars at work lol.
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Exactly.
I don't, at all, and me too.
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You'll soon see that OBDII is something righ up your alley, then.
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Last edited by Charles R. Hill; 06-04-2010 at 04:57 PM.
#38
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They saw no power increase from this and when they changed the intake manifold they had a stockpile of engines so they changed the coil and made them attach to both plugs in each cyl (which saw no power increase as well) and did away with the wasted spark setup. (made more sence to fire both plugs since they were there instead of redesigning the head). It also did away with the spiderweb of crisscross plug wires on top of the intake.
So we are both talking about the same thing when it comes to wasted spark. I shouldve been more specific on years of the current Hemi.
#39
The current version of the modern Hemi fires 2 plugs at the same time on the compression stroke and there is absolutely no benefit to that. The reason it is like that was a failed experiment for more power using wasted spark. The 03-04 hemi (and maybe 05 i cant remember) used wasted spark, Number 1 cyl coil fired a plug in number 1 cyl on comp stroke and fires a plug in number 8 cyl on exhaust stroke using a plug wire across the top of the intake.
They saw no power increase from this and when they changed the intake manifold they had a stockpile of engines so they changed the coil and made them attach to both plugs in each cyl (which saw no power increase as well) and did away with the wasted spark setup. (made more sence to fire both plugs since they were there instead of redesigning the head). It also did away with the spiderweb of crisscross plug wires on top of the intake.
So we are both talking about the same thing when it comes to wasted spark. I shouldve been more specific on years of the current Hemi.
They saw no power increase from this and when they changed the intake manifold they had a stockpile of engines so they changed the coil and made them attach to both plugs in each cyl (which saw no power increase as well) and did away with the wasted spark setup. (made more sence to fire both plugs since they were there instead of redesigning the head). It also did away with the spiderweb of crisscross plug wires on top of the intake.
So we are both talking about the same thing when it comes to wasted spark. I shouldve been more specific on years of the current Hemi.
See the problem with discussing dual plugs and wasted spark?
![Lol2](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/lol2.gif)
I am glad to see we are on the same page and I tend to think that wasted spark is actually a waste of time.
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Man, my head hurts.
#40
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Here is a site I found that explains the reason for the lower voltage and opposite flowing current on the wasted spark system.
http://www.crypton.co.za/Tto%20know/...sted%20sp.html
#41
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Add me to he list of people with these coils. I just ordered a set and will be putting them on Tuesday as I am still on the original coils at a little over 30k.
#43
Great discussion going on here...but I have a question about the topic...
Advance Auto sells the BWD Coils for $25/each here. I can't find the warranty listed anywhere.
Oreilly Auto sells the same part number (E1001) BWD Coils for $38/each here. This one specifies lifetime warranty.
Now my question - is the warranty from the manufacturer or the store? The Advance Auto ones are significantly cheaper but don't list the warranty, is it likely that they have the same warranty it just isn't stated?
Advance Auto sells the BWD Coils for $25/each here. I can't find the warranty listed anywhere.
Oreilly Auto sells the same part number (E1001) BWD Coils for $38/each here. This one specifies lifetime warranty.
Now my question - is the warranty from the manufacturer or the store? The Advance Auto ones are significantly cheaper but don't list the warranty, is it likely that they have the same warranty it just isn't stated?
#44
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For Advance Auto, its 1 year.
I do not think BWD offers Limited lifetime warranty. Its more like Oreilly bought some kind of insurance on the products they sell. if it fails, insurance pays (but you wont notice anything), if it does not fail, money goes into their pockets
But seriously, at 25 bux each (less if u know where to find/get discounts). hell I probably gonna get a set as "back up" in a few weeks.
I do not think BWD offers Limited lifetime warranty. Its more like Oreilly bought some kind of insurance on the products they sell. if it fails, insurance pays (but you wont notice anything), if it does not fail, money goes into their pockets
But seriously, at 25 bux each (less if u know where to find/get discounts). hell I probably gonna get a set as "back up" in a few weeks.
#45
I feel like with a lifetime warranty if I kept the car long enough it would pay off, but at this point I think I'd rather go with the $25/each from Advance. You can also get 10% bing cashback through the end of this month as well as $30 off $100 purchase, making 4 of these less than $70 with tax and shipping...an incredible deal. However, it doesn't appear that there are any available when I tried to add them to my cart and purchase them.
#48
#49
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Hey guys, just a heads up...I hear all the talk about the "deal" of BWD coils because
they are cheap and returnable for free. I put maybe 3k miles on mine and already a loss of power. Pulled them today, 3 out of 4 had not the "corona effect" spot that the OEMs get (which is not a sign of failure) but rather the whole black mounting surface had turned translucently tan, and I could see through into the internals. Only one was still black. I live in WA and there is no Advance auto here, so I would have to send them in. Not worth it. Luckily Atkins is right down the road so I've got new coils
and they are OEM. Way better. Just a caution guys. Get OEM or BHR. Atkins themselves do not recommend anything but OEM. Hope this experience helps for those on the fence about buying. You get what you pay for.
they are cheap and returnable for free. I put maybe 3k miles on mine and already a loss of power. Pulled them today, 3 out of 4 had not the "corona effect" spot that the OEMs get (which is not a sign of failure) but rather the whole black mounting surface had turned translucently tan, and I could see through into the internals. Only one was still black. I live in WA and there is no Advance auto here, so I would have to send them in. Not worth it. Luckily Atkins is right down the road so I've got new coils
and they are OEM. Way better. Just a caution guys. Get OEM or BHR. Atkins themselves do not recommend anything but OEM. Hope this experience helps for those on the fence about buying. You get what you pay for.
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BWD are oem. Just the first revision. Reports of excessively early failure exist, but it isn't common. Same reports exist for oem coils.
Keep in mind that fouled plugs or weak wires will kill multiple coils fairly quickly. Outside factors may have influenced your experience. Maybe not, but if you had 1 coil fail i'd not question that it was a faulty coil. 3 coils failing sounds like a broader problem, and it's not even an unreasonable possibility.
Keep in mind that fouled plugs or weak wires will kill multiple coils fairly quickly. Outside factors may have influenced your experience. Maybe not, but if you had 1 coil fail i'd not question that it was a faulty coil. 3 coils failing sounds like a broader problem, and it's not even an unreasonable possibility.