can the coils be relocated?
02-04-2006, 07:48 PM
#1
can the coils be relocated?
Well , what does all think. Would this be a worthwhile pursuit? They are in a very hot place right now. I know that the heat probably isnt the ONLY thing that is causing burnt coils--but I am sure it doesnt help. Can we relocate and would it be worth the work?
olddragger
olddragger
02-04-2006, 08:19 PM
#2
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Things that would be theoretically degraged by moving coils from plugs - increased length of hi-v wire required will add capacitance & will degrade plug firing. Spark risetime will increase and spark duration will decrease resulting in poor ignition.
02-04-2006, 09:25 PM
#6
Shifty Bastard.
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Here you go.
I do work for you...you like?
http://www.rmagic.net/new_item/new09.html
Cost......$1400 USD plus shipping.
I do work for you...you like?
http://www.rmagic.net/new_item/new09.html
Cost......$1400 USD plus shipping.
02-04-2006, 11:12 PM
#7
those are Plasma Direct coils from Ignition Solutions. They don't have any specific Mazda applications, so those have been rigged. I don't think their cost is justifed based on my own personal experience with them on other applications
http://www.ignitionsolutions.com/productsDirect.asp
http://www.ignitionsolutions.com/productsDirect.asp
02-04-2006, 11:18 PM
#8
Shifty Bastard.
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Babelfished....
To make the coil move from standard position, with the cooling effect high improvement of efficiency. The negative which has been electrified in the coil itself in the private stay which grounds electricity, very popular < Plasma direct > The empty furthermore it evolved < Plasma direct PRO > You set. In order to make the spark where the coil occurs the plug ignite securely V charger plug cord which was developed with the split fire corporation jointly was set. Just it is completion of the "ultimate ignition system"! (You install even in the Matsuda speed make tower bar equipped car and it is possible.) Energy when igniting is made to increase to approximately 2 times by generating the multiple spark of the feature > plural times of < plasma direct, ignition efficiency improves rapidly, high efficiency actualizes combustion. Low torque rise of the medium speed and power rise in the high rotary limits, at entire area not only response rise, it contributes to also fuel economy improvement. In addition, because misfire it becomes difficult to do with high revolution, it becomes also knocking prevention. To be tend, being not to be something which "increases voltage" in the tuning part of ignition type, the possibility of making the coil break is little, feeling at rest, you can use. When by any chance, plasma direct breaks down, the state of normal (plasma direct not yet installing state) it returns, usual travelling is possible. (Safety function) < Red LED to light up with difference > ignition ON of conventional type plasma direct and plasma direct PRO, after engine starting adjusting to the ignition signal, because green LED blinks, dress rise inside the engine compartment is possible it can grasp operation circumstance not only. * Accessory ignition coil portable kit V charger plug cord (split fire corporation joint development)
02-04-2006, 11:27 PM
#9
you should be able to build your own system for much less once you figure out which coil to use, typically the Plasma Direct coils will run around $70 each through the lower cost sources (eBay) depending on the exact model used, contacting IS direct and possibly supplying an OE coil may due the trick, I have a contact though I haven't communicated with him in a while
a lot of those japanese sites just parrot other companies marketing claims
a lot of those japanese sites just parrot other companies marketing claims
Last edited by TeamRX8; 02-04-2006 at 11:29 PM.
02-05-2006, 12:12 AM
#10
You could move them, but the heat issue isn't radiant - its electrical.
These coils are firing on every crank revolution - that is twice as often as any conventional application. Add to that the high RPMs and the relatively high current needed to ignite the mix in such a small comustion chamber and you are asking for a coil-b-que.
I'll have my capacitive solution up in a few weeks.
These coils are firing on every crank revolution - that is twice as often as any conventional application. Add to that the high RPMs and the relatively high current needed to ignite the mix in such a small comustion chamber and you are asking for a coil-b-que.
I'll have my capacitive solution up in a few weeks.
02-05-2006, 12:19 AM
#11
well the wholesale price for OE coils is $38 each so I may look into the Ignition Solution coilpack conversion, in this case the cost of the IS coils can be justified if it eliminates the problem
the CD conversion is interesting, but $600 is a bit more than I'd want to spend for a reliability solution
the CD conversion is interesting, but $600 is a bit more than I'd want to spend for a reliability solution
Last edited by TeamRX8; 02-05-2006 at 12:22 AM.
02-05-2006, 12:31 AM
#12
Originally Posted by TeamRX8
the CD conversion is interesting, but $600 is a bit more than I'd want to spend for a reliability solution
The OEM coils are around $50 for most people. Even at $38, that is only $4 less than a high power DIS coil from MSD that is indestrutible and puts out twice the current and voltage as the OEM coil.
The AEM can be had for around $280. Add to that a set of Carrol wires and a few Weatherpac connectors to make the harness and you are done.
02-05-2006, 01:15 AM
#13
well the power adder claim remains to be seen, as opposed to just getting a reliably working system in there that does the job it was originally suppose to do
in the case of FI it's likely justified due to the higher demands on igniting the mixture, but NA probably not
in the case of FI it's likely justified due to the higher demands on igniting the mixture, but NA probably not
02-05-2006, 01:33 AM
#14
Shifty Bastard.
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It's conventional wisdom that a factory stock ignition upgrade is desirable whenever you go down the path to get more out of your engine....FI or not.
Better economy, more power, better driveability, better reliability.....what's not to like?
Better economy, more power, better driveability, better reliability.....what's not to like?
02-05-2006, 01:35 AM
#15
the cost, assuming you can achieve close to the same for less, which is yet TBD
I agree with your comment, particularly WRT to FI as previously stated, but making blanket assumptions about performance to be found on the Renesis engine has proven to be the downfall of many ... in general there usually isn't much to be found ignition-wise on NA engines these days unless there happens to be a major failing in the basic system, much of the marketing you see from ignition companies is blatant BS
I agree with your comment, particularly WRT to FI as previously stated, but making blanket assumptions about performance to be found on the Renesis engine has proven to be the downfall of many ... in general there usually isn't much to be found ignition-wise on NA engines these days unless there happens to be a major failing in the basic system, much of the marketing you see from ignition companies is blatant BS
Last edited by TeamRX8; 02-05-2006 at 01:48 AM.
02-05-2006, 09:19 AM
#18
Glad I started this thread. I am glad that smarter people than me can come up with something to fix this. I wasnt sure of the radiate heat issue. I remember when CZ was burning up coils. I wonder will this be an issue with the interceptor? An ignition upgrade with FI would just make sense but now that the interceptor is availabel for the n/a cars also--they too may want to consider an upgrade.
Anyway I can get an wholesale price on a stock coil? I would like to keep a couple in reserve!
olddragger
Anyway I can get an wholesale price on a stock coil? I would like to keep a couple in reserve!
olddragger
02-05-2006, 01:20 PM
#19
Lubricious
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Here is a link I ran across some time back. Someone put the Renesis into a light aircraft. They did replace the coils for some reason -- probably because of sustained high rpm. Using high-revving engines in a propeller aircraft usually entails a gear-reduction box so that the engine can be kept in the optimal part of the powerband while propeller rpm are down around 2500. Can't rev props too fast or the tips go supersonic which is bad for performance.
Anyway, this page mentions the coil replacement:
http://www.rotaryaviation.com/renesis_engine.htm
They are selling some time of coils, but not the "LS-1" mentioned in the article. Or maybe they are? (Corvette coils). The devil is in the details, but they might be a source of information about replacing the stock coils...
http://rotaryaviation.com/new_page_5.htm
Anyway, this page mentions the coil replacement:
http://www.rotaryaviation.com/renesis_engine.htm
The Mazda ignition coils were replaced with 4 LS-1 coils (truck version) mounted on a bracket on top of the engine. The old heater hose plumbing has been replaced by silicone hoses....
http://rotaryaviation.com/new_page_5.htm
These are the coils that Tracy recommends for airplane installation. He has used both models - the 580's on the 13B engine and the 581's on the current Renesis installation.
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The model D580 coils are from the Corvette. They weigh 10.1 oz each. The D580 coils have both connectors facing the same direction. These coils are about 3.5 X 4 inches. Price: $57 per coil
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Model D581 coils are from the truck engine. They weigh 9.4 oz each. These coils have one connector out each side of the coil. Size is approximately 3.5 X 2.5 inches. Price: $45 per coil.
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The model D580 coils are from the Corvette. They weigh 10.1 oz each. The D580 coils have both connectors facing the same direction. These coils are about 3.5 X 4 inches. Price: $57 per coil
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Model D581 coils are from the truck engine. They weigh 9.4 oz each. These coils have one connector out each side of the coil. Size is approximately 3.5 X 2.5 inches. Price: $45 per coil.
Last edited by Nubo; 02-05-2006 at 01:22 PM.
02-05-2006, 02:44 PM
#21
see my previous post, think it can be configured as plug-n-play if I can acquire the necessary connectors, but want to throw one together first
IMO it will be more than sufficient for NA, I like MM's choice for a spark enhancer box though, adding it in if needed would be no problem, but if the extra energy doesn't buy you anything then the extra $300 + wiring isn't justified
IMO it will be more than sufficient for NA, I like MM's choice for a spark enhancer box though, adding it in if needed would be no problem, but if the extra energy doesn't buy you anything then the extra $300 + wiring isn't justified
Last edited by TeamRX8; 02-05-2006 at 02:49 PM.
02-05-2006, 02:53 PM
#22
Originally Posted by Spin9k
Pray tell, what is it? Anything like this?
that is the aftermarket alternative of Nubo's post, I had all that stuff posted last night and then deleted it, those are going to run you $70/each though, they actually just released a better version for our application if you want to go that route, the MSC II; it will package better, but then you have to mount and wire them too, so you're probably looking at a $350 DIY outlay
http://msdignition.com/2006/06-7.htm
Last edited by TeamRX8; 02-05-2006 at 02:55 PM.
