rotarygod

I can only speak from my own personal engines and I've built a few. None of them were blown up either. I've sen nothing out of the ordinary inside of one when using synthetics. If the engine was revved up periodically, regardless of oil type, you shouldn't see any carbon in them anyways. I don't baby my engines so I don't ever find it. When I rebuilt my current RX-7's engine, it was after I had bought the car from the original owner. She used conventional oil but she probably also didn't rev it up very high. There was tons of carbon in it. I can't say for sure that it was the oil but can for certain say that it was from driving it to easy. Synthetic oils have never shown to cause any problems in any motors I've seen.

It's impurities in the base stock oil that leave the most residues. Although someone above claimed that oil doesn't burn, this is impossible as we know that oil fires have happened around the world. It just has a higher flash point. This flash point is easily met inside the combustion chamber which will get well over 1000 degrees but typically over 1500 degrees or more. There isn't much that can survive that. I've also seen people claim that conventional oils work better because the actual surfaces inside the engine don't get very hot compared to the combustion gas temperatures and conventional oils have a lower flash point. This too is misleading as that is too broad a statement. They aren't that far off from each other. You might have brand A conventional with a flash point of 470* while brand B conventional has a flash point of 500*. Then you might have synthetic brand A with a flash point of 485* while brand B synthetic has a flash point of 510*. How can anyone based on that say all conventionals are safe to use and all synthetics aren't? The numbers actually work that way. Some conventionals can rival those of some synthetics. Others can't.

So if we can narrow down temperature as a factor in what does and doe not work, it must be something else. In fact it is. It all goes back to the impurity level in the base stock oil. The higher the grade, the lower the impurities with groups IV and V being superior. Groups I-III are conventionals the difference between them being in simple terms the amount they are refined. This means filtered of it's impurities. Ther more impurities it has, the more there are to burn off. The more that are present, the less likely you are to burn them all off which leaves deposits. Some will always burn. These impurities also cause the base oil to break down faster. There are several negatives to it. Some people will even claim that certain impurities are actually lubricants. That's a nice feeling isn't it? There's a cure for that though when you get to the purest oils. It's called the additive package. Simple. All oils contain them anyways.

I will not say that RP works the absolute best. It is known and proven to work well in rotaries and even the rotary big dog at Mazda Japan has stated it is a good oil. I know. I asked him.

There is controversy as to whether or not group III oils are synthetics. I say no as it is nothing more than better filtered group I-II oils which is what all the "conventional" people here run. Groups IV and V are not the same as this. FWIW: Amsoil XL series oils are Group III while their other lines are Group IV. RP is Group IV and Redline is Group V. There is no advantage between groups IV and V. They are both pure. They are just different.

Keep in mind that 2 stroke oil is designed to be mixed with fuel and be burned. This just means it burns cleanly with minimal carbon deposits. We can never claim absolutely no deposits but we can agree that purer and less of them is better. Regular oil is soluable in gasoline. I know. I've experiemented with it and it has been confirmed by other sources as well. Hopefully that's enough info for now. I'll let it get back into the naysayers court before I go and explain it all over again.

Winfree

Will low revs for a long period equate to high revs for a short period in burning off residue?
(Great excuse for a road trip).

rotarygod

Unfortunately it doesn't work like that. The best thing to do is to just use a more pure product that has less potential to leave deposits.

rx7speed

let me rephrase a little better. it's synthetic as far as the us courts are worried about. it's marketing. they figure if they can refine dino juice to a point that it KINDA acts like a synthetic then that's good enough. the courts agreed. so what it turns out to be is your paying money for something that is not a true synthetic but just over refined dino slurm. why not spend the same amount of money on the real thing that is a TRUE synthetic and not based upon dino juice still

rx7speed

ok guys again you want to talk about how synthetic oils will ruin the car and make it blow up out of nowhere or ruin the car and make the space time fabric rupture and rx-2/3/4/5/7/8 cars will vanish and no longer exist to where we all drive around in kia sophia's right?


I'm assuming my engine has many mor emiles then most the rx8's here and prolly even a few more then some of the rx-7 members that might be here. so far I'm near the 220k mile mark. that is 220,000 miles. I started using synthetic when I got the car at around 148k so I have been using it for a while. guess what I' still driving the same rx7 and not the kia sophia yet. so it must not be that bad.

did a compression check at around 198k miles it was around 110psi on the front rotor and around 95 psi on the rear. not the greatest I admit for that rear rotor but you know for almost 200k miles that is a little expected anyway I would say.

it does leak some oil but can't help that with a cracked oil cooler. go through maybe 1qt every 1500miles or so.

it does smoke a little. but again it is a high mileage car. it doesn't smoke bad not even really during startup the only tmie you really see the smoke is during heavy engine braking. not my fault the engine doesn't like to go into engine braking at 7000rpms right?

mid-life crisis

Same thing my dealer said. So is it okay to move to synthetic after 1000 mi. or should I go with conventional a little longer? I did my first oil change after 600 miles.

toddman

When I first purchased my 8, I immediately switched her over to Mobil 1 synthetic 5w-20 at 4+ bucks per quart. Ran it like that with no problems until I took her to the dealer for a 20K service. I requested that they use the Mobil 1 in my trunk for the oil change and the service writer said ok. When I picked my car up, the service writer told me that the mechanic said that using synthetic oil could 'VOID MY WARRANTY'!!!

I did not question him, just simply switched to Valvoline. I have searched the owner's manual cover to cover, there is NOTHING in there, nor in the warranty booklet that says you can't use synthetic oil.

At this point, I would really like to switch to Amsoil or Royal Purple, but I am still under warranty and don't want to jeopordize that.

I think I will contact MNAO for a more conclusive answer. I will let you all know what they say.

WREX07

Just speaking of oils, I was spealking to a friend of mine that has owned many RX-7s and he told me (after telling him that my oil light has been coming on) to use 10W 30 instead of the 5W 30, he explained but I think I missed most of the point. He said he used it in all of his 7s and it worked great. Please inform, thanks

Seth

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

I switched back to RP already(2days ago) and Im going to stay with it for the rest of my 8's life.

RP does make my 8 idle smoother. before the switch back (yes, cuz I used RP before, switched couple of brands and Im back) the idle was somewhat rough even with AC off.

Now, no problems at all with AC on.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Tell your service adviser to shut up and prove that it can void warranty.

Most dealers are so stupid to a level that they dont even know wtf they're doing/saying.

bxb40

Rotarygod, how is Redline a group V? Those are not hydrocarbons but esters - very expensive and normal additives used in motor oil would not be soluble in it (aviation uses such oils). Those are used in small amounts in synthetic oils to modify solubilities - never in more than 10-15% though.
Also, motor oils DO NOT BURN inside the engine. They burn to some extent in the catalyst. The residues in the engine are ashes from additives - hence a low ash formulation is important. Carbon deposits and sludge come mostly from fuel. Now, if the ash mixes with the carbon and makes a brittle cake, revving the engine high will break that and "clean" the engine. If the ash is smooth and hard, it will not break and the engine is in trouble. Unfortunatelly, nobody knows the additive package in the oils you use, to be able to check what kind of deposit you get (this why car manufacturers use engine tests, this is not really science but experimentation). Because Mazda did not test all/(any?) synthetics in the renesis, they cannot endorse it. Many synthetics leave little residue, but it is the sticky, smooth kind, that blocks apex seals in their groves. Now, if people using synthetics could monitor and post compression numbers versus milage, that would answer the question. Long ago, the group V solvents use to destroy the seals on old rotaries - this is NOT the case anymore, so all those old sayings (from Castrol or some dealers) mean nothing nowdays. The only thing to worry about is the compression rate when using synthetics, not broken seals. Also, how much carbon deposits are inside the engine is also not the key - all new motor oils should not clog your engines with carbon unless your car has a problem of a different nature (not oil-related). It matters only the type of deposits you get in the little grooves in which seals seat and should be able to move in order to do their job (this is the same on piston engines - once the seals on the pistons get "glued" in their groves, you need a rebuild). But you will ALWAYS get deposits, synthetic oil or not.
The sludge forms when using crap gas - this should not be a problem for renesis engines that run hot and at high RPMs, but do try to use better gas for few cents more a gallon. I'm saying a better brand, not octane - use the lowest octane that does not make the engine ping - and this will depend on outside temperature. For ex., my engine is fine on 87 octane if temp outside are bellow 85F. When higher, I need 89 octane.

rx7speed

the only difference between 5w-30 and 10w-30 oil is the weight or thickness of the oil when cold.

the first number is the weight the oil seems to be when cold the last number in this case the 30 is the weight of the oil when fully warmed up. don't think this is going to make much difference with your oil light with that beign the case.

rx7speed

where are you guys getting your rp from? I have never seen it or amsoil and don't want to mail order my oil in

rx7speed

I have been told by dealers that things like rims can void the warrenty, an air filter, or even if I change the spark plug wires to non-- OEM wires that it can void it.


they seem to think that unless your car stays 100% stock it voids the warrenty when in fact it doesn't. to void the warrenty they have to prove the aftermarket item had to cause the failure. in this case the oil would need to be the reason for the damage.



so lets say you put synthetic oil in your motor and your tranny takes a dump they have to prove that the synthetic motor oil cause your tranny (which has a different oiling system) cause the failure.

same thing with the motor if your motor blows they have to show that it was synthetic that caused the failure (not a very good chance of that happening)

rx7speed

already done. read my post above it list compression numbers in there on a 200k+ mile motor

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Well, Online order is a nice way, say, some of the forum vendors sell it too (racing beat has it at least)

Local dealer wise ... I know that pepboys has them (I got it from them, I used to order it online)

Where you live anyway Rx7speed ? if you're in new york Im pretty sure theres a pepboys around. (but they ONLY carries engine oil, 5w30 and 10w30, for everything else, say, Gear oil, gotta shop online, of which Im going to do that right now)

Many people dont even know wth is Royal Purple. I did an oil change at a shop. and they said Mobil1 is better, I dont blame them since seriously I've never heard of Royal Purple until I got my 8. (and I think RP should think of a complete re-design of their product cover, I mean, the Box design is giving me a very Generic feel. I mean if I've never use/heard of RP before, and it sits on the shelf with some BP oil next to it. I probably going to think that *this crap is just the same as BP, why is it selling at 7bucks per quart?*

I mean Mobil1 is not bad, soild brand, very reliable(for most cars)

but when I told them "Ferrari use Royal Purple" they have nothing else to say

swoope

iTrader: (5)

pm me for the info..

beers

rx7speed

I'm near boise idaho so it's a little bit of a drive to go to ny but I want to one of these days at least I hope.

as far as weight of oil in my 7 I use 5w-30 most the time and my 76 accord gets 5w-30 in the mtor and tranny most the time as well untill real hot months. so that would be fine. other then that it is 10w-30.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

u can try summitracing.com as well.

Shipping is free, but they charge handling (rip off) but the price should be about the same as buying local (For me)

GhostRidr

Don't mean to sound argumentative, but do you have any evidence to back up such a claim? I have serious doubts about such a statement. The only two oils I've ever heard associtated with Ferrari are Redline and Shell Helix.

rotarygod

Shell oil pays millions a year to Ferrari to sponsor their race teams. Ferrari uses Shell lubricants throughout the car. However, there is a tag on new Ferrari transmissions at the factory that says to use Royal Purple fluids in the tranny in hotter climates. That's the only place but they do in fact use it sometimes. If you visit the Ferrari factory and see the transmissions before they go in the car, they have this on a label.

rx7speed

in a way I agree. if a company pays enough money to someone else they would be willing to use it.


why not pay me to use your product? as long as it does the job.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

no problem man ! This is what a forum is for (to agure ... I mean discuss )

I guess RG said it already.

Redline makes really really good oil, but the thing is that I cant even find it anywhere in nyc (Pepboys, Autzone, Strauss Auto, and I dont go small shops)

its hard to find Royal Purple as only Pepboys has it.

I guess the reason is that most NYC locals has been brainwashed by Mobil.

auzoom

ANyone heard of these guys http://torcousa.com/ ?

danielk015

iTrader: (1)

most of this thread is an argument on whether a synthetic is good for the rx8 or not.. i think its pretty clear that both synthetic and dino will work on the 8 as long as the rating are up to par... what my question is "is the benefits of synthetic that much better when changing the oil at 3K intervals:"? I always thought that synthetic (like in my piston g35) is better as the intervals are longer in changing the oil and that the synthetic will stay "fresh" for a longer period of time...

but for our 8s, if both gets the job done to a high level, does a synthetic like RP offer that much more benefit than Castrol GTX over 3k miles to justify the higher costs>?? I think that question for the 8 is definitely debatable and up in the air