Cumulative Synthetic Oil Discussion
07-10-2011, 01:35 AM
#1651
No attack intended Flash.
VIIs are used to aid a base stock in its avoiding thinning. These are polymers that act as chains stretching as the base is heated to hold the molecules in closer formation.
PPDs (Pour Point Depressants) are to act to aid base stock's impurities (waxes) from coagulating too much to prevent base oil flow.
Both wear out. However, with 0w oils Id think and have seen contain little or no PPDs and as such this is of minimal concern.
I agree that 0w oils would likely prevent wear best given the flow at start up. However, for street use one might prefer this 0w to not possess properties that might be damaged by shear such as we get in the rotary.
VIIs are used to aid a base stock in its avoiding thinning. These are polymers that act as chains stretching as the base is heated to hold the molecules in closer formation.
PPDs (Pour Point Depressants) are to act to aid base stock's impurities (waxes) from coagulating too much to prevent base oil flow.
Both wear out. However, with 0w oils Id think and have seen contain little or no PPDs and as such this is of minimal concern.
I agree that 0w oils would likely prevent wear best given the flow at start up. However, for street use one might prefer this 0w to not possess properties that might be damaged by shear such as we get in the rotary.
Last edited by Iluvrevs; 07-10-2011 at 02:01 AM.
07-10-2011, 02:01 AM
#1652
YOU ARE WRONGGGGggGGgGGgg !
According to some of the "experts" here onboard. Mazda designed the engine so they know best ! 5w20 is the way tooooooo goooooOOOooooo ! They have engineering degree I don't ! no one other than Mazda should recommend ANYTHING ! no matter how many messed up bearings people saw cuz the owner was using 5w20 !
...
*silently pour some 20w50 into the engine ...*
According to some of the "experts" here onboard. Mazda designed the engine so they know best ! 5w20 is the way tooooooo goooooOOOooooo ! They have engineering degree I don't ! no one other than Mazda should recommend ANYTHING ! no matter how many messed up bearings people saw cuz the owner was using 5w20 !
...
*silently pour some 20w50 into the engine ...*
But most important of all, don't buy any Mobil 1 MO!
They might get the big head and raise prices and/or no sales!
07-15-2011, 07:12 AM
#1654
Jackson... you have a SOHN adapter right? That's the only instance when using mobil 1 isn't absolutely and irreparably detrimental for your engine.
That thing doesn't mix with fuel that well and lubricates the housings and seals like sanding paper would.
That thing doesn't mix with fuel that well and lubricates the housings and seals like sanding paper would.
07-15-2011, 09:06 AM
#1656
I'm using Royal purple for the 8 now. still have like 15 bottles
5w30 is for my brother's Infiniti, the 0w40/15w50 is for my father's CX-7
and it's easy to see 212f oil temp at NYC's stop & go traffic. even when my coolant temp is way below that. It's not really that big of a deal.
07-20-2011, 06:40 PM
#1659
Then there are dozen of oil studies ready to be googled. Mobil 1 is a great oil, in other applications.
07-21-2011, 04:00 AM
#1662
07-22-2011, 01:10 PM
#1663
Lubricious
Join Date: Oct 2003
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And in any case that doesn't answer my question. Using since early 2004 and waiting for the "absolute and irreparable" damage to become apparent.
Seeing as how many Renesis from that year died long ago regardless of oil, my conclusion is it just doesn't matter; at least to a far lesser degree than the overall tendency for the engine to have a relatively short life compared to conventional engines. I live in a relatively warm area; we see triple digit heat and low humidity commonly during the summers, and plenty of miles in stop and go traffic -- the apparent worst-case scenario.
Not that I'm putting down the rotary engine, it has definite advantages that are well-used in the RX-8. But I'm under no illusions about Renesis longevity. And I think 7 1/2 years later I can safely say that Mobil1 is, at the very least, not ruinous for the engine. It's all a tempest in a teapot and the only reason it's endlessly debated is the short service life of the engine. If Renesis engines lasted 200,000 miles or more in common practice, the "great synthetic debate" thread would be a couple of pages long discussion between a few oil geeks.
imho
07-22-2011, 05:25 PM
#1665
Super Moderator
If Renesis engines lasted 200,000 miles or more in common practice, the "great synthetic debate" thread would be a couple of pages long discussion between a few oil geeks.
1.No question the No.1 engine reliability issue is Apex Seal Lubrication/Compressions.
2.Carbon
3.Blocked MOP Injector Lines..Way too long, to many bends, heat fragile.
4.Side Seal issues..usually spring.
5.Oil Pressure
6.Cooling System
7.Oil Type.
There is just no comparison between the current S2 EMOP system and everything else made before in ANY rotary. An Oil Control Valve taken from a 2002-2006 Mazda 2 and 3 engine which regulates the oil pressure inside the 2 EMOP's and also performs a cleaning mode to flush oil lines and EMOP's.
The actual Injector Nozzle Tubes are no more than 6 inches long with no stupid one-way check valve inside like the long S1 Tubes. The ability to put some oil into engine when it is turned off every time (PCM Control) is also another great advance.
Frankly, apart from the Renny, Mazda's S2 EMOP "system" is really quite brilliant and the next best, if not the best advance they have made that I can remember for any Rotary Engine.
The one thing which would make is even better is it's own supply source of new Oil, but that will never happen from a consumer point of view (more bad press).
But hang on..... I just forgot their new filtering system is also the best of any other Rotary ever made in S2, every drop of oil is filtered before it is used.
Last edited by ASH8; 07-22-2011 at 05:28 PM.
07-22-2011, 05:31 PM
#1666
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
Well, I have used Mobil1 0W-40 in my engine since break in. UOA's have shown it to have held up great (even with coolant in it actually) but I was not burning it, I run a SOHN adapter. But, my engine will be torn down by pineapple racing soon and we shall see how the internals held up with Mobil1, SOHN with 2 stroke, and premixing 2 stroke in the gas.
07-22-2011, 05:34 PM
#1667
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
The "TYPE" of oil is some what down the list of what is wrong with the Renny 1.
1.No question the No.1 engine reliability issue is Apex Seal Lubrication/Compressions.
2.Carbon
3.Blocked MOP Injector Lines..Way too long, to many bends, heat fragile.
4.Side Seal issues..usually spring.
5.Oil Pressure
6.Cooling System
7.Oil Type.
There is just no comparison between the current S2 EMOP system and everything else made before in ANY rotary. An Oil Control Valve taken from a 2002-2006 Mazda 2 and 3 engine which regulates the oil pressure inside the 2 EMOP's and also performs a cleaning mode to flush oil lines and EMOP's.
The actual Injector Nozzle Tubes are no more than 6 inches long with no stupid one-way check valve inside like the long S1 Tubes. The ability to put some oil into engine when it is turned off every time (PCM Control) is also another great advance.
Frankly, apart from the Renny, Mazda's S2 EMOP "system" is really quite brilliant and the next best, if not the best advance they have made that I can remember for any Rotary Engine.
The one thing which would make is even better is it's own supply source of new Oil, but that will never happen from a consumer point of view (more bad press).
But hang on..... I just forgot their new filtering system is also the best of any other Rotary ever made in S2, every drop of oil is filtered before it is used.
1.No question the No.1 engine reliability issue is Apex Seal Lubrication/Compressions.
2.Carbon
3.Blocked MOP Injector Lines..Way too long, to many bends, heat fragile.
4.Side Seal issues..usually spring.
5.Oil Pressure
6.Cooling System
7.Oil Type.
There is just no comparison between the current S2 EMOP system and everything else made before in ANY rotary. An Oil Control Valve taken from a 2002-2006 Mazda 2 and 3 engine which regulates the oil pressure inside the 2 EMOP's and also performs a cleaning mode to flush oil lines and EMOP's.
The actual Injector Nozzle Tubes are no more than 6 inches long with no stupid one-way check valve inside like the long S1 Tubes. The ability to put some oil into engine when it is turned off every time (PCM Control) is also another great advance.
Frankly, apart from the Renny, Mazda's S2 EMOP "system" is really quite brilliant and the next best, if not the best advance they have made that I can remember for any Rotary Engine.
The one thing which would make is even better is it's own supply source of new Oil, but that will never happen from a consumer point of view (more bad press).
But hang on..... I just forgot their new filtering system is also the best of any other Rotary ever made in S2, every drop of oil is filtered before it is used.
I am going with another Series 1 this time, but next time I plan on proving people wrong by doing a S2 swap. Over the next couple of year I plan on getting ahold of a S2 doner car. Unless my mind changes and I just swap in a piston engine.
07-22-2011, 05:53 PM
#1668
Super Moderator
Don't EVER put a Banger in an RX-8..PLEASE...NO one can ever be called a "Rotary-file" or Rotary Connoisseur if you do.
Frankly, Banger it is a cheap *** option, if you cant afford to find another rebuild done well in the US for very little money (Mazmart)..your need flogging...up until now you guys have had it too easy....you are going Pineapple
Going S2 as you know has a lot of changing.
ALL Engine wiring Looms.
PCM
EMOP Driver
Engine of course with EMOP's Attached.
Dash Wiring loom as Cluster Gauge is different, so is Console LED.
And just remember ALL your Immobiliser (Keyless Entry Modules) are different
and require the necessary Wiring looms...I don't think S1 will talk to S2 PCM.
Plus a few I have forgotten.
But I guess doing the S2 swap all depends on whether you want constant CEL lights.
07-22-2011, 05:57 PM
#1669
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
Don't EVER put a Banger in an RX-8..PLEASE...NO one can ever be called a "Rotary-file" or Rotary Connoisseur if you do.
Frankly, Banger it is a cheap *** option, if you cant afford to find another rebuild done well in the US for very little money (Mazmart)..your need flogging...up until now you guys have had it too easy..
Going S2 as you know has a lot of changing.
ALL Engine wiring Looms.
PCM
EMOP Driver
Engine of course with EMOP's Attached.
Dash Wiring loom as Cluster Gauge is different, so is Console LED.
And just remember ALL your Immobiliser (Keyless Entry Modules) are different
and require the necessary Wiring looms...I don't think S1 will talk to S2 PCM.
Plus a few I have forgotten.
But I guess doing the S2 swap all depends on whether you want constant CEL lights.
Yeah, I don't know if I'm up for the fab work required for a piston engine but damn it would be nice to have 300WHP and be able to expect to beat on it for 100,000 miles without if needing a rebuild.
As for the S2 engine I am planning on having to swap clusters, PCM, harness, etc., etc., etc., etc.
07-23-2011, 07:54 AM
#1671
07-23-2011, 10:47 AM
#1674
You don't have a control to compare with (a renesis running another brand) do you?
I'd conclude that the omp needs turning up, and also premixing with about 3 times that omp amount would make sure its lubed.
Gas will mix with ALL motor oils (read those uoa's), or even other refined petroleum, and the only concern after that is: Will the oil make excessive deposits that defeat the film of oil.
07-23-2011, 10:56 AM
#1675
It's more than just mixing with fuel, how does the oil itself burn?
The engines that used other oils looked better, both build-up and general housing\seals wear wise.
Unfortunately i have just this humble statistical data and RG's statements to work with, i'll leave scientific proof to the scientists.
Since there are other oils that are known to work without issues i'll limit myself to using them!
The engines that used other oils looked better, both build-up and general housing\seals wear wise.
Unfortunately i have just this humble statistical data and RG's statements to work with, i'll leave scientific proof to the scientists.
Since there are other oils that are known to work without issues i'll limit myself to using them!