Cumulative Synthetic Oil Discussion
03-12-2012, 08:53 AM
#1776
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I can't recall oil weight ever being the cause of an engine failure...
Just saying.
It's always side seal heat buildup that warps the springs until the seals break, or carbon buildup that unseats the apex seals or causes non-flush apex movement, wearing them, or overheating that warps a housing, or an oil control ring failure, or a coolant seal failure.
"Bearing wear" is the only thing that oil weight seems to have anything to do with, and even then, nearly every major rebuilder has only commented on it in passing, never with worry.
Oil has been a religious war. But probably for no reason at all.
Just saying.
It's always side seal heat buildup that warps the springs until the seals break, or carbon buildup that unseats the apex seals or causes non-flush apex movement, wearing them, or overheating that warps a housing, or an oil control ring failure, or a coolant seal failure.
"Bearing wear" is the only thing that oil weight seems to have anything to do with, and even then, nearly every major rebuilder has only commented on it in passing, never with worry.
Oil has been a religious war. But probably for no reason at all.
03-13-2012, 11:15 AM
#1781
Lol. The science I’ve read does give an indication that group Vs have a lower coefficient of friction yielding less heat production that can help improve cooling. Obviously with thinner oil you get more flow and more cooling too. I know M1 0w's have some group V in the form of AN and maybe some POE, but not enough to bump up the HTHS like the POE group Vs in Redline. I have also yet to read a report our from someone switching from M1 to a niche synthetic like RL, RP, Motul or NEO that hasn’t seen a temperature reduction but unless you are serious racer or really struggling from heat issues I doubt it will be anything meaningful. Then again it may allow you to get away with thinner oil if you were so motivated.
03-13-2012, 11:39 PM
#1783
I can't recall oil weight ever being the cause of an engine failure...
Just saying.
It's always side seal heat buildup that warps the springs until the seals break, or carbon buildup that unseats the apex seals or causes non-flush apex movement, wearing them, or overheating that warps a housing, or an oil control ring failure, or a coolant seal failure.
"Bearing wear" is the only thing that oil weight seems to have anything to do with, and even then, nearly every major rebuilder has only commented on it in passing, never with worry.
Oil has been a religious war. But probably for no reason at all.
Just saying.
It's always side seal heat buildup that warps the springs until the seals break, or carbon buildup that unseats the apex seals or causes non-flush apex movement, wearing them, or overheating that warps a housing, or an oil control ring failure, or a coolant seal failure.
"Bearing wear" is the only thing that oil weight seems to have anything to do with, and even then, nearly every major rebuilder has only commented on it in passing, never with worry.
Oil has been a religious war. But probably for no reason at all.
Sorry for kicking this extremly dead horse but it is slow at work and I'm trying to stay awake
03-20-2012, 03:20 PM
#1784
Lol. The science I’ve read does give an indication that group Vs have a lower coefficient of friction yielding less heat production that can help improve cooling. Obviously with thinner oil you get more flow and more cooling too. I know M1 0w's have some group V in the form of AN and maybe some POE, but not enough to bump up the HTHS like the POE group Vs in Redline. I have also yet to read a report our from someone switching from M1 to a niche synthetic like RL, RP, Motul or NEO that hasn’t seen a temperature reduction but unless you are serious racer or really struggling from heat issues I doubt it will be anything meaningful. Then again it may allow you to get away with thinner oil if you were so motivated.
03-20-2012, 05:14 PM
#1786
03-22-2012, 09:01 AM
#1791
when i used royal purple it lost its viscosity very fast--say in 2K miles. I cant remember the exact milage. Redline keeps its viscosity ok. I did settle on the 5w/30.
I think the flow of the oil in this engine is the same regardless of the viscosity. The amount of flow in the closed part of the system is predetermined by the pump. Its going to pump the same volume no matter what. The viscosity of the fluid is what is determining the overall pressure--everything else being equal. Now the cooling ability of a thinner oil in the oil coolers is a no brainer. But cooling is only one part of the oils job. Lubrication is the other. That is where the oil film strenght becomes very important. Just remember the specs for the renny engine is the same as the 13B's and the oil film strenght needed for proper lubrication is well known.
If you really want to run a lower viscosity oil then look at engine metal treatments and coatings--i like MicroBlues approach.
I think the flow of the oil in this engine is the same regardless of the viscosity. The amount of flow in the closed part of the system is predetermined by the pump. Its going to pump the same volume no matter what. The viscosity of the fluid is what is determining the overall pressure--everything else being equal. Now the cooling ability of a thinner oil in the oil coolers is a no brainer. But cooling is only one part of the oils job. Lubrication is the other. That is where the oil film strenght becomes very important. Just remember the specs for the renny engine is the same as the 13B's and the oil film strenght needed for proper lubrication is well known.
If you really want to run a lower viscosity oil then look at engine metal treatments and coatings--i like MicroBlues approach.
03-22-2012, 03:07 PM
#1793
Having said that your oil presure will be higher with 50 than with 30 all other things being equal.
03-22-2012, 05:00 PM
#1794
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
The filter bypass pressure is a pressure drop across the filter material itself. The engine oil pressure and the amount of oil rises in proportion to rpm until the system bypass opens. When the system bypass opens, no further increase in volume happens. Plus no one really knows if and when it is opening anyway so...........................
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 03-22-2012 at 10:06 PM.
It's like listening to nerds arguing over which is better, Star Wars or Star Trek.
03-22-2012, 09:52 PM
#1796
so what is the psi rating of our stock engine bypass valve?
also for those with oil pressure gauge what is the observed oil pressure at:
1000 rpm
2000 rpm
3000 rpm
4000 rpm
5000 rpm
6000 rpm
7000 rpm
8000 rpm
9000 rpm
also for those with oil pressure gauge what is the observed oil pressure at:
1000 rpm
2000 rpm
3000 rpm
4000 rpm
5000 rpm
6000 rpm
7000 rpm
8000 rpm
9000 rpm
Last edited by Nadrealista; 03-23-2012 at 08:36 AM.
03-23-2012, 02:50 PM
#1797
03-23-2012, 03:06 PM
#1798
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
I can tell you that when I did not have the Mazmart mod and I went to the single Fluidyne oil cooler, my oil pressure increased to about 90psi max due to the larger more direct feed and return lines. With the Mazmart mod it went to about 125psi at redline. I have not redlined my new ported motor so I can't say what the max pressure is but at about 5,000RPM it is near 90psi.
03-23-2012, 09:04 PM
#1799
Look in my single oil cooler install thread, I think I have some logs with oil pressure there. My car is down awaiting a new turbo otherwise I would get you the numbers. But I had the Mazmart oil pressure mod when those logs were taken. My new motor has basically the same thing from Pineapple Racing.
I can tell you that when I did not have the Mazmart mod and I went to the single Fluidyne oil cooler, my oil pressure increased to about 90psi max due to the larger more direct feed and return lines. With the Mazmart mod it went to about 125psi at redline. I have not redlined my new ported motor so I can't say what the max pressure is but at about 5,000RPM it is near 90psi.
I can tell you that when I did not have the Mazmart mod and I went to the single Fluidyne oil cooler, my oil pressure increased to about 90psi max due to the larger more direct feed and return lines. With the Mazmart mod it went to about 125psi at redline. I have not redlined my new ported motor so I can't say what the max pressure is but at about 5,000RPM it is near 90psi.
03-24-2012, 09:02 AM
#1800
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
Max stock on a Series 1 should be around 75psi according to my oil pressure gauge. Of course each guage will vary and now I have a custom dual oil cooler setup so that will affect the readings as well.. I went with the Prosport because reads up to 150psi. I am also taking the reading at the oil filter adapter.