Dealer diagnosed as 0 compression. Out of warranty. What to do?
#1
![FL](https://www.rx8club.com/images/icons/fl.jpg)
Well I'm not sure how it came out to be 0 compression since if it's a seal that's gone bad, there would at least be some sort of low compression right?
Anyways, that's what they come up with and they said I'd need a "new engine". Now my car has seen some ****.
During my time of owning it since Mar 09, I've had 2 engine replaced.
And today was the first time that I was shown the previous warranty work done by Mazda.
It shows that I've maybe had another 2-3 engine put in it.
Rep said he doesn't know if it was a complete engine swap, but the part no. came out to be the 13B-MSP short block.
I'm at 77k miles and it's an 04. He kept saying it's how my Racing Beat Dual Resonated Race Pipe is causing the problem, and I kept telling how it's not the problem.
I didn't really wanna argue that with him cuz I know it's getting no where.
I asked him to talk to the corporate and see if they'd actually do anything abt it since this car has had 5-6 engines so somethings' definitely off.
He called me back in the afternoon and said no, Mazda's not gonna do anything since the car's out of the 8 year window albeit only having much less than 100k miles
During my time of owning it, well it actually lasts longer. The first engine that came with the car lasted 6 months (engine was replaced/fixed right like 2 weeks before I bought it), second one lasted 1 year and 10 months, this one that just died lasted 2 years and 2 months.
Anyway, here comes the question. What can I do now? I know I'll get raped if I paid full price to get it fixed at the dealer. I'm in Central Florida by the sea, Daytona exactly.
First thing I did was to call up Pettit Racing down in West Palm which is like 200 miles away. The tow/transport to get there is like 350, and they gave me a quote of a worst case scenario and and a better one, but eitherway I'm still fucked.
One thing about Pettit is that they claim after they rebuild it the engine would have more power since they do street-port and blueprint on it, and it would get better mpg (i really don't know about this one), and it would have "lifetime warranty" as in some **** happens again, I'd just have to bring it in and only pay for parts, labor would be free.
I'm going to look on the board and do some research about Pettit, I mean I've read great things about their supercharger kits and stuff like that, so I would think they are pretty reputable.
So what I'm asking is, do I have any other options?
I don't want to sell/part out the car.
I wanna get it fixed and back up running again.
My gf has had a E90 335 and a 987 Boxster, but it's just not the same.
I'm also an international student here in the states, I won't have a garage or the time to work on it myself. So what are you guys' suggestion?
Sorry for this long post.
TL:DR Car needs new engine, suggestions for getting it back up and running?
Any input would be appreciated
Anyways, that's what they come up with and they said I'd need a "new engine". Now my car has seen some ****.
During my time of owning it since Mar 09, I've had 2 engine replaced.
And today was the first time that I was shown the previous warranty work done by Mazda.
It shows that I've maybe had another 2-3 engine put in it.
Rep said he doesn't know if it was a complete engine swap, but the part no. came out to be the 13B-MSP short block.
I'm at 77k miles and it's an 04. He kept saying it's how my Racing Beat Dual Resonated Race Pipe is causing the problem, and I kept telling how it's not the problem.
I didn't really wanna argue that with him cuz I know it's getting no where.
I asked him to talk to the corporate and see if they'd actually do anything abt it since this car has had 5-6 engines so somethings' definitely off.
He called me back in the afternoon and said no, Mazda's not gonna do anything since the car's out of the 8 year window albeit only having much less than 100k miles
During my time of owning it, well it actually lasts longer. The first engine that came with the car lasted 6 months (engine was replaced/fixed right like 2 weeks before I bought it), second one lasted 1 year and 10 months, this one that just died lasted 2 years and 2 months.
Anyway, here comes the question. What can I do now? I know I'll get raped if I paid full price to get it fixed at the dealer. I'm in Central Florida by the sea, Daytona exactly.
First thing I did was to call up Pettit Racing down in West Palm which is like 200 miles away. The tow/transport to get there is like 350, and they gave me a quote of a worst case scenario and and a better one, but eitherway I'm still fucked.
One thing about Pettit is that they claim after they rebuild it the engine would have more power since they do street-port and blueprint on it, and it would get better mpg (i really don't know about this one), and it would have "lifetime warranty" as in some **** happens again, I'd just have to bring it in and only pay for parts, labor would be free.
I'm going to look on the board and do some research about Pettit, I mean I've read great things about their supercharger kits and stuff like that, so I would think they are pretty reputable.
So what I'm asking is, do I have any other options?
I don't want to sell/part out the car.
I wanna get it fixed and back up running again.
My gf has had a E90 335 and a 987 Boxster, but it's just not the same.
I'm also an international student here in the states, I won't have a garage or the time to work on it myself. So what are you guys' suggestion?
Sorry for this long post.
TL:DR Car needs new engine, suggestions for getting it back up and running?
Any input would be appreciated
#2
Out of NYC
iTrader: (1)
well, Pettit racing is pretty well known in the rotary community.
but honestly if you are not racing or anything, there is almost no point going with "Street port"
and just having a Street port will not make your car go any faster, you gotta have a tune to go with it.
I'm not sure if I want to pay someone 425 bucks to "document failure points", as I can do it myself for free (or you just go there when they disassemble the engine
I'm not sure what's that Apex seal is all about, but it's probably some sort of heat treated process which is known to be useless. And for the improved cooling around exhaust port and lead plugs, all u need to do is get a dremel tool and make some fins around the cooling passage of the said area. Oil system mods, just increase the pressure and you can almost get it done for free.
It's easy to do all of the above when the engine is out.
Pre-lube oil system? some sort of fancy term ?
As for the rest of the stuff, it just means "we'll reinstall your engine and check for leaks"
but for 425 bucks. Ask if they can do this alone and you bring your own engine there ?
Are they re-using your clutch ?
Mazda filter cost 5-6 bucks, gallon of prestone 100% + 1 gallon of distilled = 10-11 bux wholesale. Cabin filter less than 10 bucks.
if you pay close attention to their site, many of the stuff is really just copy n paste, and I found this in RX8's page
???????? 12A? maybe
if it's a daily driven FD3S, no way.
Just to be fair, the price of a engine installed from a famous shop like Pettit Racing, 4-5 K is NOT THAT BAD. I've seen worst overseas. WAY worst.
you can get a Reman Mazda Engine for 2K Retail + your existing core. they're a hit or miss obviously. if u want to save money, ask if there is anyone who knows how to rebuild at ur local area, get a Reman, disassemble it to fix any f-ups. and install. I can help ya do it for a small fee, but you're just too far away from me
Mind you, the main difference between the Plan A (HOLY COW!) and Plan B (meh) is for Plan A, they're doing what I was telling you above, which is get a Reman - Disassemble it - fix f-ups if there is any - reassemble.
while plan B is, hopefully your core is re-usable, they will disassemble that, clean, re-assemble with new seals.
but honestly if you are not racing or anything, there is almost no point going with "Street port"
and just having a Street port will not make your car go any faster, you gotta have a tune to go with it.
REMOVE ENGINE AND DISASSEMBLE COMPLETE, PERFORM
THROUGH INSPECTION AND FAILURE ANALYSIS.
PHOTOGRAPH FAILURES AND RECORD FINDINGS. PREPARE
ANALYSIS DOCUMENT WITH RECOMMENDATIONS TO
PREVENT FUTURE FAILURES WHICH CAN HELP TO
MAXIMIZE PERFORMANCE AND LONGEVITY.
THROUGH INSPECTION AND FAILURE ANALYSIS.
PHOTOGRAPH FAILURES AND RECORD FINDINGS. PREPARE
ANALYSIS DOCUMENT WITH RECOMMENDATIONS TO
PREVENT FUTURE FAILURES WHICH CAN HELP TO
MAXIMIZE PERFORMANCE AND LONGEVITY.
PETTIT BUILT 13B RENESIS ENGINE, BLUEPRINTED AND
STREET PORTED W/ "FLEX ARMOR APEX SEAL
FORTIFICATION" OUR LATEST TECHNOLOGY FOR ADDED
STRENGTH TO BETTER SAFEGUARD YOUR ENGINE AS WELL
AS OUR MODS WHICH IMPROVE COOLING AROUND
EXHAUST PORT AND MINIMIZE HOUSING SURFACE
PROTRUSION AROUND LEAD PLUGS, OIL SYSTEM MODS
IMPROVE OILING, MAIN & ROTOR BEARINGS CLEARANCED
TO RACE P-SPECS, MICRO FINISH ON ALL CRITICAL
SURFACES, CLEAN ROOM ASSEMBLED AND STATIC
COMPRESSION TESTED & CAPPED.
RACER DISCOUNT
STREET PORTED W/ "FLEX ARMOR APEX SEAL
FORTIFICATION" OUR LATEST TECHNOLOGY FOR ADDED
STRENGTH TO BETTER SAFEGUARD YOUR ENGINE AS WELL
AS OUR MODS WHICH IMPROVE COOLING AROUND
EXHAUST PORT AND MINIMIZE HOUSING SURFACE
PROTRUSION AROUND LEAD PLUGS, OIL SYSTEM MODS
IMPROVE OILING, MAIN & ROTOR BEARINGS CLEARANCED
TO RACE P-SPECS, MICRO FINISH ON ALL CRITICAL
SURFACES, CLEAN ROOM ASSEMBLED AND STATIC
COMPRESSION TESTED & CAPPED.
RACER DISCOUNT
PERFORM COMPLETE INSPECTION AND SERVICE ALL
ACCESSORIES, VDI VALVE, SSV VALVE AND AUX PORT
VALVES AS NEEDED CLEAN, FLOW AND PRESSURE TEST
INJECTORS. UPGRADE CONTROL HOSE AND CHECK
VALVES, BENCH TEST TO VERIFY PROPER OPERATION.
REINSTALL ALL ACCESSORIES TO NEW ENGINE.
2 RUN CONNECTORS COOLANT BYPASS KIT
ACCESSORIES, VDI VALVE, SSV VALVE AND AUX PORT
VALVES AS NEEDED CLEAN, FLOW AND PRESSURE TEST
INJECTORS. UPGRADE CONTROL HOSE AND CHECK
VALVES, BENCH TEST TO VERIFY PROPER OPERATION.
REINSTALL ALL ACCESSORIES TO NEW ENGINE.
2 RUN CONNECTORS COOLANT BYPASS KIT
REINSTALL ENGINE COMPLETE, PRE-LUBE OIL SYSTEM AND
PERFORM LEAK TEST, INSTALL NEW COOLING SYSTEM
PARTS, FILL, BLEED AND PRESSURE CHECK SYSTEM.
INSTALL PLUGS ENABLE IGNITION, START UP AND RUN IN
ENGINE, TEST COOLING SYSTEM TO VERIFY PROPER
OPERATION OF THERMOSTAT, RADIATOR AND ELECTRIC
COOLING FANS.
PERFORM LEAK TEST, INSTALL NEW COOLING SYSTEM
PARTS, FILL, BLEED AND PRESSURE CHECK SYSTEM.
INSTALL PLUGS ENABLE IGNITION, START UP AND RUN IN
ENGINE, TEST COOLING SYSTEM TO VERIFY PROPER
OPERATION OF THERMOSTAT, RADIATOR AND ELECTRIC
COOLING FANS.
As for the rest of the stuff, it just means "we'll reinstall your engine and check for leaks"
but for 425 bucks. Ask if they can do this alone and you bring your own engine there ?
RALLY CLUTCH KIT/HD / FD / 0.00T
RACER DISCOUNT -100.00
OIL AND FILTER CHANGE, MAZDA FILTER, REVOMAX
POWERBLEND 15/W40 RACING ENGINE OIL
1 GALLON COOLANT PRESTONE GREEN
1 CABIN AIR FILTER
RACER DISCOUNT -100.00
OIL AND FILTER CHANGE, MAZDA FILTER, REVOMAX
POWERBLEND 15/W40 RACING ENGINE OIL
1 GALLON COOLANT PRESTONE GREEN
1 CABIN AIR FILTER
Mazda filter cost 5-6 bucks, gallon of prestone 100% + 1 gallon of distilled = 10-11 bux wholesale. Cabin filter less than 10 bucks.
if you pay close attention to their site, many of the stuff is really just copy n paste, and I found this in RX8's page
Engine Longevity:
Engine Life is totally dependent on proper care and the best balance of performance and longevity is achieved by following our recommendations page. The basics are warm it up easy, keep the oil clean, use a quality fuel lubricant additive and good quality fuel. These simple techniques have proven to work for many customers worldwide and many have reported their Pettit Built engines still performing well with over 15 years of use.
Engine Life is totally dependent on proper care and the best balance of performance and longevity is achieved by following our recommendations page. The basics are warm it up easy, keep the oil clean, use a quality fuel lubricant additive and good quality fuel. These simple techniques have proven to work for many customers worldwide and many have reported their Pettit Built engines still performing well with over 15 years of use.
if it's a daily driven FD3S, no way.
Just to be fair, the price of a engine installed from a famous shop like Pettit Racing, 4-5 K is NOT THAT BAD. I've seen worst overseas. WAY worst.
you can get a Reman Mazda Engine for 2K Retail + your existing core. they're a hit or miss obviously. if u want to save money, ask if there is anyone who knows how to rebuild at ur local area, get a Reman, disassemble it to fix any f-ups. and install. I can help ya do it for a small fee, but you're just too far away from me
Mind you, the main difference between the Plan A (HOLY COW!) and Plan B (meh) is for Plan A, they're doing what I was telling you above, which is get a Reman - Disassemble it - fix f-ups if there is any - reassemble.
while plan B is, hopefully your core is re-usable, they will disassemble that, clean, re-assemble with new seals.
Last edited by nycgps; 09-11-2013 at 06:28 AM.
#5
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
A reman from the dealer is $2,001.00. I have seen that price as high as $2400.00 and as low as $1850.00 here locally amongst our dealers. The gasket kit needed is anywhere from $70.00-$150.00 depending on the dealer markup. You only get a 12 month /12k warranty if the dealer installs it.
A decent quote for engine pull and reinstall is $1,000.00. But, you will need coolant, oil, hoses, possibly time for a clutch, oil injectors if the fail test, and of course anything that is broke during this which is likely and sometimes unavoidable due to the age of components.
So low end, paying someone to do it is $3,000.00. High end is $4,000.00 if using a Mazda reman. If you have someone build it like Pettit (Very Good) and install it then you are looking at $5,000.00ish.
Whether you can afford that or if its worth it is only a question you can answer.
but if your oil consumption was good then that means you OMP lines and injectors are likely okay so you could just do the swap without much additional parts cost.
A decent quote for engine pull and reinstall is $1,000.00. But, you will need coolant, oil, hoses, possibly time for a clutch, oil injectors if the fail test, and of course anything that is broke during this which is likely and sometimes unavoidable due to the age of components.
So low end, paying someone to do it is $3,000.00. High end is $4,000.00 if using a Mazda reman. If you have someone build it like Pettit (Very Good) and install it then you are looking at $5,000.00ish.
Whether you can afford that or if its worth it is only a question you can answer.
but if your oil consumption was good then that means you OMP lines and injectors are likely okay so you could just do the swap without much additional parts cost.
#7
pettit over a dealer any day. Rotary Resurrection is the home of the budget build, although being in TN would mean you would incur shipping and engine removal fees. Worth a shot if you're shopping around.
#8
Motor for $2200!
This might come in handy
This might come in handy
#10
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
![TX](https://www.rx8club.com/images/icons/tx.jpg)
Nuts.
Motor for $2200!
This might come in handy
This might come in handy
Not bad if it's legit because you don't have to pay a core charge so you can get at least $500.00 for you old engine. But I wouldn't buy an Atkins engine personally. But if you are in a pinch.
#12
The reason why you had a couple of engines is due to remanufacturer.
Like stated, "it is a hit or miss".
Best off going with Pettit.
Also Atkins is very reliable. They have been around for years and attend Seven Stock.
If they weren't reliable they wouldn't be allowed as a Vendor at Seven Stock.
My question are: Why does he have the engine for sale? How was it used? etc..
Like stated, "it is a hit or miss".
Best off going with Pettit.
Also Atkins is very reliable. They have been around for years and attend Seven Stock.
If they weren't reliable they wouldn't be allowed as a Vendor at Seven Stock.
My question are: Why does he have the engine for sale? How was it used? etc..
#13
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
![TX](https://www.rx8club.com/images/icons/tx.jpg)
The reason why you had a couple of engines is due to remanufacturer.
Like stated, "it is a hit or miss".
Best off going with Pettit.
Also Atkins is very reliable. They have been around for years and attend Seven Stock.
If they weren't reliable they wouldn't be allowed as a Vendor at Seven Stock.
My question are: Why does he have the engine for sale? How was it used? etc..
Like stated, "it is a hit or miss".
Best off going with Pettit.
Also Atkins is very reliable. They have been around for years and attend Seven Stock.
If they weren't reliable they wouldn't be allowed as a Vendor at Seven Stock.
My question are: Why does he have the engine for sale? How was it used? etc..
Atkins has handled issues very poorly with two people I personally know of, that have had issues with the cryo treated Renesis apex seals. There has also been plenty of other not so great experiences with them on the rx7club. Nothing horrible, but still something to be aware of.
The fact that they have been around a long time and are a sevenstock vendor means nothing. Are they horrible? Heck no, I was just disappointed to how they handled the issues I have personal knowledge of.
As for this engine for sale, who knows why it is for sale.
#14
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
As to why the OP has had several engines, well that could depend on a lot of things. If they were Mazda remans, were they engines built by Cat or were they later engines from the Mazda remans? no one knows and it really doesn't matter now. I know of a few engines from renowned builders that are loved here fail prematurely, that doesn't necessarily mean they were built improperly. RotaryRessurection had a pretty post about that recently.
#15
So well since my closest option would be Pettit anyway, so I guess I'll dig more into that? What have people heard abt their street ported built engine anyways? I have trouble finding feedback on that. When I search Pettit, usually its the SC kit that comes up
#18
Here's what the dealer quoted me btw
"The original was
Motor: 4075.00
Gaskets: 116.25
Oil filter: 7.95
Oil: 14.75
Coolant: 26.57
Labor at 14.5 hours and 109.95 an hour was 1594.28
Total parts and labor and 6.5% sales tax : 6214.06
I quoted you a total of 6300 in order to add shop supplies where i was not sure of the total of that."
and I asked him to talk to his manager and see if he could knock it down just for the lols
and here's what he came up with.
"The lowest i can go would be
Motor: 3495.00
Gaskets: 116.25
Oil Filter: 7.95
Oil: 14.75
Coolant:26.57
Labor at 12 hours and 109.95 and hour is 1319.40
Total part and labor and 6.5% sales tax is: 5303.65
So I will quote you a price of 5350 in order to allow room for shop supplies. "
Seriously I don't know how dealers can get away from up-selling the parts and all that....
There was this old lady with an automatic 04 with like 105k miles on it, they said that needed a new engine too and they were offering her 500 for the car as is, my mind was blown.
"The original was
Motor: 4075.00
Gaskets: 116.25
Oil filter: 7.95
Oil: 14.75
Coolant: 26.57
Labor at 14.5 hours and 109.95 an hour was 1594.28
Total parts and labor and 6.5% sales tax : 6214.06
I quoted you a total of 6300 in order to add shop supplies where i was not sure of the total of that."
and I asked him to talk to his manager and see if he could knock it down just for the lols
and here's what he came up with.
"The lowest i can go would be
Motor: 3495.00
Gaskets: 116.25
Oil Filter: 7.95
Oil: 14.75
Coolant:26.57
Labor at 12 hours and 109.95 and hour is 1319.40
Total part and labor and 6.5% sales tax is: 5303.65
So I will quote you a price of 5350 in order to allow room for shop supplies. "
Seriously I don't know how dealers can get away from up-selling the parts and all that....
There was this old lady with an automatic 04 with like 105k miles on it, they said that needed a new engine too and they were offering her 500 for the car as is, my mind was blown.
#21
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
That dealer is ******* you. No one sells new engines. One of our local members is a tech at Mazda and says the dealer parts guys get a commission so the higher they sell it, the more they get. But that is highway robbery since the list price for the engine is $2,0001.00. Unless that price is with them charging you the $1,000.00 core charge and not taking your engine.
Pettit is very good, but they don't do Cobb Tuning AFAIK. But i know a couple of guys with Pettit built engines in both Rx-7's and RX-8's and they have great things to say. But, you could need new hard parts and that can get expensive. they charge more for their premade engines but they come with new housings, etc. Worth it in my opinion.
Pettit is very good, but they don't do Cobb Tuning AFAIK. But i know a couple of guys with Pettit built engines in both Rx-7's and RX-8's and they have great things to say. But, you could need new hard parts and that can get expensive. they charge more for their premade engines but they come with new housings, etc. Worth it in my opinion.
#23
running on double cream!
iTrader: (1)
Just curious for when I have to inevitebly fight my dealer for a new motor at a reasonable price, where is the $2001.00 MSRP actually documented? I'd like to be able to prove that to a service writer should this come up. I've seen that price thrown around quite often here but never with a link to show its validity.
OMP has it listed as $3,335.00 with a $1,000.00 core charge making it $2,335.00. That $34 just a OMP markup?
I'm not sure if I'd want to use Online Mazda Parts as my source, not to mention they have a core charge listed there which would just tell the dealer they can charge over $3k. (come to mention it, I assume dealers don't' mention core charges as I know they don't open the motors to inspect the re-usability of the parts)
If there was official Mazda documentation available showing the MSRP at $2,001.00 that would be amazing.
Of course, this doesn't mean I don't' believe it, but we've all been there, standing at the Service Department service desk staring blindly into the service writers eye's as they've told us something absolutely ridiculous and if I only had the right ammunition to give a rebuttal.... Yeah.. you know the feeling.
OMP has it listed as $3,335.00 with a $1,000.00 core charge making it $2,335.00. That $34 just a OMP markup?
![Wink](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/wink.gif)
If there was official Mazda documentation available showing the MSRP at $2,001.00 that would be amazing.
Of course, this doesn't mean I don't' believe it, but we've all been there, standing at the Service Department service desk staring blindly into the service writers eye's as they've told us something absolutely ridiculous and if I only had the right ammunition to give a rebuttal.... Yeah.. you know the feeling.
#25
Out of NYC
iTrader: (1)
Just curious for when I have to inevitebly fight my dealer for a new motor at a reasonable price, where is the $2001.00 MSRP actually documented? I'd like to be able to prove that to a service writer should this come up. I've seen that price thrown around quite often here but never with a link to show its validity.
OMP has it listed as $3,335.00 with a $1,000.00 core charge making it $2,335.00. That $34 just a OMP markup?
I'm not sure if I'd want to use Online Mazda Parts as my source, not to mention they have a core charge listed there which would just tell the dealer they can charge over $3k. (come to mention it, I assume dealers don't' mention core charges as I know they don't open the motors to inspect the re-usability of the parts)
If there was official Mazda documentation available showing the MSRP at $2,001.00 that would be amazing.
Of course, this doesn't mean I don't' believe it, but we've all been there, standing at the Service Department service desk staring blindly into the service writers eye's as they've told us something absolutely ridiculous and if I only had the right ammunition to give a rebuttal.... Yeah.. you know the feeling.
OMP has it listed as $3,335.00 with a $1,000.00 core charge making it $2,335.00. That $34 just a OMP markup?
![Wink](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/wink.gif)
If there was official Mazda documentation available showing the MSRP at $2,001.00 that would be amazing.
Of course, this doesn't mean I don't' believe it, but we've all been there, standing at the Service Department service desk staring blindly into the service writers eye's as they've told us something absolutely ridiculous and if I only had the right ammunition to give a rebuttal.... Yeah.. you know the feeling.
and it's NOT 2335 + 1K core charge, the "base price" of the engine IS 3335! so you're looking to pay 4335 for everying (until you return the core)
wow, I guess the warranty is gonna run out and Mazda is looking to get their share of gold
![Frown](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/frown.gif)
Last edited by nycgps; 09-12-2013 at 09:53 PM.