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Distilled vs ordinary water for radiator

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Old 04-29-2008, 12:14 PM
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Distilled vs ordinary water for radiator

I always knew that you should use distilled water for radiator due to the salts and other minerals that ordinary water has. I want to ask something that I race car specialist told me and I cannot agree. He says that it is wrong that everyobne uses distilled water because it does some chemical reaction "which I can't understand why" and that this causes corrosion to the radiator metals. Since distilled water is also de-ionized, without salts, minerals or ions, I don't see such a reason. Since this man is very knowledgeable with engines, I would like some confirmations by other experts that this is wrong.
Old 04-29-2008, 12:20 PM
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if it does, then that's news to me. My car has been running distilled water for quite a while and it has no issue. I also drop 2 quarts of water wetter in there so the pump is lubricated properly.
Old 04-29-2008, 12:23 PM
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Water is a natural solvent. Distilled water is the lesser of evils in this application, due as you cite to its being devoid of minerals.

I can't imagine therefore what chemical reaction it would promote over that of tap water.

btw: distilled or deionized water is best as a car wash rinse for the same reason, that it is devoid of water spot contributing soluble salts/minerals.

btw2: rain water is naturally 'distilled' but in our modern culture it picks up a lot of air pollutant contaminents/acids on its way down.

Last edited by Huey52; 04-29-2008 at 12:32 PM.
Old 04-29-2008, 12:24 PM
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That's what I'm doing as well and that's what everybody else knows anyway. For the time being I used distilled water even after this conversation. I just want to know if anyone in the world has heard something similar
Old 04-29-2008, 01:13 PM
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I think he is talking about the reaction between distilled water & Aluminum, You will see build up after a while. and its bad bad for transfering heat.

but your Engine expert also forgot that, race team rebuild their engine b4 every race. so build-up was never really a problem.

Another bad thing about Water is that its not the best lubricate out there. So its not so good to run just water with water pump seals. Also it will help rust build up. Even it has no minerals or whatever in there to being with.

Last edited by nycgps; 04-29-2008 at 01:16 PM.
Old 04-29-2008, 01:17 PM
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Tap water is more reactive with Aluminum than distilled water. This shouldn't be a discussion of tap vs. distilled but rather distilled water vs. other coolants.
Old 04-29-2008, 01:19 PM
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Yep, I forgot to add that Tap water is the worst thing u can have for your Radiator.

You can use Pure Distilled water with Water wetter like mysql, but if its me I will flush it every couple months or so.

Oh one more thing, whenever you have a bottle of coke, you always wonder why is there a bad after taste ? Its from the Aluminum reaction, Coke has very strong level of Acid in it. thats why coke always taste weird in plastic or Aluminum can but it taste the best in Glass Bottle.

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Old 04-29-2008, 01:21 PM
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same exact topic on another forum:

http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9015230
Old 04-29-2008, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by nycgps
You can use Pure Distilled water with Water wetter like mysql, but if its me I will flush it every couple months or so.
Ya, change it once a year. Just put a screwdriver under the coolant drain plug, turn it a few times and it all pours out. Put in a gallon or two of new distilled water, drive around, park it and let it cool. Then refill with distilled water + water wetter and you're done.
Old 04-29-2008, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mysql
Ya, change it once a year. Just put a screwdriver under the coolant drain plug, turn it a few times and it all pours out. Put in a gallon or two of new distilled water, drive around, park it and let it cool. Then refill with distilled water + water wetter and you're done.
Too bad there is no way I can use Pure water (or very low mixture of anti-freeze) in NYC.

hmm ... hey u know what, Maybe I should give it a try ~~~~ lol !

Its almost May .... I have couple of months ... hmm but I just flushed my system so .... lemme think
Old 04-29-2008, 01:32 PM
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There are always some kooks who want to ascribe properties to distilled water which are somehow different than... well.... water. You get this with some nutritional wackos, too.

If you're going to use water as part of your coolant, it should either be de-ionized (good), or distilled water (better).

If you want corrosion inhibitors, you add them. With coolant preparations, water-wetter, what-have-you.

But the idea that random tap water, with some random concentrations of random minerals, is somehow better than PURE water, is hard to understand.
Old 04-29-2008, 01:43 PM
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What he was probably talking about is that he was using just straight up distilled water and it was causing corrosion.

Distilled water will cause corrosion also because it will absorb ions from the air.

He might know something about cars, but obviously knows nothing about chemistry
Old 04-29-2008, 01:43 PM
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tap water eliminates the middle man and has those ions already in the water.
Old 04-29-2008, 02:33 PM
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Distilled water can do very different/interesting things to biological systems, compared to tap/mineralized water. But mechanically/chemically....yeah it's better, per the above posts.
Old 04-29-2008, 06:37 PM
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The owner's manual specifies demineralized water (p238 in 04 manual).
Old 04-29-2008, 07:02 PM
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How much drop in temperature on those Hot days can you see with the distiled and water wetter combo. Ten degrees?
Old 04-29-2008, 09:47 PM
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the confusion is between distilled and ultrapure DI water

there is no issue with using distilled water

super high ultrapure DI water (used in labs, high end electronics fabrication, pharmaceutical manufacturing, etc.) is so pure that it won't even conduct electricity, this same purity level is also so out of balance WRT electron valence force balance that it wants to scavenge anything and everything to balance it out, so this does make water corrosive in it's most ultrapure form, it will literally leach molecules from solid materials (like metal) to achieve this


Chemical Bonds ..Ref. Molecular Bonds


There are a number of elements that have been discovered and are listed in the periodic table. These elements each have their own individual properties. There are an infinite number of compounds that can be made up from these elements each with its own characteristics. The compounds are formed when elements combine or react with each other in a particular way in certain proportions. A compound is formed when two or more atoms chemically bond together, the resulting compound is unique both chemically and physically from its parent atoms.

G.N.Lewis (in about 1916) observed that many elements are most stable when they contained eight electrons in their valence shell. He suggested that atoms with fewer than eight valence electrons bond together to share electrons and complete their valence shells.

There are a number of bonding types including Ionic, Covalent, Metallic, Van der Waals ......etc.etc ref. Molecular Bonds.

Bonds form tending to stabilise a chemical system by releasing energy. The larger the amount of energy released during the formation of a bond, the more stable the bond will be...... If two atoms release energy (Exothermic reaction ) by forming a bond, then the atoms will be more stable by staying together than they would be as individual atoms.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ionic Bonds

The bond between two different atoms when one atom (the cation) donates its valence electrons to another atom (the anion). The resulting electrostatic charge bonds the two atoms together. ref. Cations -ions

There are simple rules relating to ionic bonds

Ionic bonds form between metals and non-metals
In naming simple ionic compounds, the metal is always first, the non-metal second (ie. sodium chloride)
Ionic compounds dissolve easily in water and other polar solvents
In solution, ionic compounds easily conduct electricity. ,
Ionic compounds tend to form crystalline solids with high melting temperatures.


A compound illustrating ionic bonds is salt (Sodium Chloride). For this compound a metal bonded to a non-metal: the metal is first in the chemical name: salt dissolves easily in water,: saline solutions are conductive: salt is a crystalline solid with a melting point of 800°C...




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Covalent Bonds

This bond most commonly occurs when two non-metals bond together. This type of atomic bonding occurs when atoms share electrons. As opposed to ionic bonding in which a complete transfer of electrons occurs, covalent bonding occurs when two (or more) elements share electrons. Covalent bonding occurs because the atoms in the compound have a similar tendency for electrons (generally to gain electrons). Because both of the non-metals will want to gain electrons, the elements involved will share electrons in an effort to fill their valence shells.

A good example of a covalent bond is that which occurs between two hydrogen atoms. Atoms of hydrogen (H) have one valence electron in their first electron shell. Since the capacity of this shell is two electrons, each hydrogen atom will 'want' to pick up a second electron. In an effort to pick up a second electron, hydrogen atoms will react with nearby hydrogen (H) atoms to form the compound H2. Because the hydrogen compound is a combination of equally matched atoms, the atoms will share each others single electron, forming one covalent bond. In this way, both atoms share the stability of a full valence shell.

There are two types of covalent bond the polar and the non-polar bond. A good example of a non-polar bond is the hydrogen atom. Because both atoms in the bond are the same with similar electrical properties there is no preference for the electron to be close to either of the atoms. In reality whenever two atoms of the same type form a covalent bond the bond is non-polar.

A good example of a polar covalent bond is water . This molecule has one large oxygen atom bonded to two small hydrogen atoms. The oxygen atom shares two valency electrons and each hydrogen atom shares one. The oxygen atom is a much larger atom than hydrogen atom and has a larger number of electrons. The oxygen atom has a larger attraction for the elctrons compared to the hydrogen atom and the participating electrons are within the influence of the oxygen atom for a greater proportion of the time. The hydrogen atoms therefore have a tendency to be positively charged and the oxygen atom tend to be negatively charged. This type of atom is called a dipole.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Metallic Bonds

This bond relates to metals. Metals in the solid phase consist of a crystal lattice of the metal cations, with the valence electrons being shared among all the cations.. Because the valence electrons are not associated with any particular atom, they are free to move under the influence of external electrical forces, as long as they remain within the bounds of the crystal.

All metals are made up of a vast collection of ions that are held together by metallic bonds. A metal atom has a positive nucleus with negative electrons outside of it. In a solid, each atom loses the outermost electron, which takes part in bonding. They form a lattice of regularly spaced positive ions. Each cation has no control over its bonding electron.

The positive metal cations are attracted to the negatively charged delocalised electrons. The negative electrons are in turn attracted towards the positive metal cations. It is these attractions that hold the structure together forming metallic bonds.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Van der Waals bond

This type of bond is the result of an inter-molecular attractions. These attractions are between molecules and neighboring molecules. The dipole molecules in liquid water are attracted to each other by electrostatic forces, and these forces have been named Van der Waals forces.

Even though the water molecule as a whole is electrically neutral, there is a dipole moment across the molecule (see above) this is a minute separation of the positive and negative charge centers. This results in a net attraction between such polar molecules which causes some attraction between water molecules and contributes to viscosity and surface tension. It is accepted that the Van der Waals forces holds water in the liquid state until thermal agitation becomes violent enough to break the bonds at 100°C. With cooling, residual electrostatic forces between molecules cause most substances to liquify and eventually solidify.

Non-polar molecules also experience weak Van der Waals bonding because they can be polarised and experience fluctuating dipole moments which result in net attractions between molecules over time.
Old 04-30-2008, 08:45 AM
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i used bottled water......
Old 04-30-2008, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by heyarnold69
i used bottled water......
you may as well use tap water in that case.
Old 04-30-2008, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by heyarnold69
i used bottled water......
usually has Sodium (salt) added.... not a great choice at all.
Old 04-30-2008, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by heyarnold69
i used bottled water......
Originally Posted by mysql
you may as well use tap water in that case.
I use bottled water too !

but on the bottle it saids "Distilled Water", so Im good ?
Old 04-30-2008, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Huey52
btw2: rain water is naturally 'distilled' but in our modern culture it picks up a lot of air pollutant contaminents/acids on its way down.
Rain would have dust particles in it anyway, otherwise it wouldn't rain. It has nothing to do with pollution.
Old 04-30-2008, 12:12 PM
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Putting flame suit on. okay, so you jut put distilled water in? thats it? no coolant?
Old 04-30-2008, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by CompMan
Putting flame suit on. okay, so you jut put distilled water in? thats it? no coolant?
you can go without coolant IF the temps in your area do not reach freezing.

But you cannot use ONLY distilled water because you have items in the cooling system that require lubrication. you'd need something like water wetter to keep them from malfunctioning.
Old 04-30-2008, 12:20 PM
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If we'd all go old skool and air cool like Porsche this wouldn't be necessary...who wants to go first????


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