Originally Posted by Rote8
(Post 3482320)
Why remove the cross member?
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Originally Posted by TeamRX8
(Post 3386024)
So how much more difficult is it to pull the engine & trans out together this way as an assembly? Late in the year I can see needing to do this. I know how to disassemble everything. It's just a matter of what it takes to get it out through the engine bay ie car needs to be higher in the air or not etc.?
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i used your method to get my engine out but i cant for the life of me get the transmission and engine to mate back up.... any help would be great
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It's basically a matter of experience doing it that way...sometimes they slide right together in 30 seconds, sometimes it takes an hour to get them to go back into place. A lot of it is experience, and some of it is just luck of the draw.
You kind of need a prybar or pipe to give a little leverage to push the engine back into the trans, it often won't slide on with just you pushing by hand. A lot of wiggling and adjusting of angles in 2 planes of motion (up down, side to side) is also necessary. One last trick you can use is to put the trans in gear with the e-brake on and then turn the engine crank to help get the input shaft lined up to the clutch disc. You'll fee it grab and engage the teeth, and then you know it's beginning to line up...then you only need to worry about pushing/wiggling, and about having it lined up properly in terms of angles (trans parallel to engine in 2 planes). |
First, thanks for great write-up. Very useful as I am about to do the same thing.
My RX8 is automatic however. Could someone tell me how to deal with the torque converter removal? Thanks! |
i finaly got it back in lol....... thanks thread was awsome made it almost even seem easy.....
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Originally Posted by 2aroundtheworld
(Post 3495514)
First, thanks for great write-up. Very useful as I am about to do the same thing.
My RX8 is automatic however. Could someone tell me how to deal with the torque converter removal? Thanks! There are a couple of trans fluid cooler lines routed to the front of the car, disconnect those and move them away from the engine. Be prepared for a lot of drainage from those lines. The starter is bolted to the side of both the engine and trans. There are 4 bolts that hold it on IIRC. Remove the starter. This will expose the flywheel. Between the engine and flywheel, on the flywheel, you will find the 4 14mm bolts that hold the torque converter in place. I dont recall for sure, but there may be an inspection plate on the bottom front of the trans bellhousing, that would allow you to get to these from the bottom too. Anyway there is no good way to lock the engine in place without letting the flywheel spin, which is what needs to happen. If you have help, you can rig up a big socket/ratchet/pipe combination on the front crank pulley bolt, rest it on the inner fender well/frame/ etc. in such a way that when you try to loosen a TC bolt, the rig on the front of the engine holds it from spinning and lets you break the TC bolt loose. Its not really practical to try this without a helper to hold the rig steady and move it every time you want to get to one of the other 3 TC bolts, also you'd be risking damage to your car's paint/body if one of the pipes fell off or flew off and hit something if there were nobody there to hold them steady. Otherwise the way I do it is to grab a large flat blade screwdriver. Put it into the teeth of the flywheel adjacent to the top edge of the opening in the trans bellhousing. Then use a wrench or 2 and break loose the TC bolt, while holding the flywheel from spinning with your wedged screwdriver. Once you get all 4 TC bolts removed, then use a screwdriver to gently slide the TC apart from the flywheel. It will move about half an inch or so into the transmission. There is also one extra trans-to-engine bellhousing bolt near the oil filter that the manual does not have. BE SURE you have the trans jacked up and supported in an upward position before trying to separate it from the engine. |
Just a follow-up as I am almost ready to put a new engine in.
Removing the engine following this method turned out to be much more work than I expected. It was my first time working on RX8 so I took my time but I have done several engines replacement in the past on various model. Mine is an automatic so there are a few more tricky things to consider. -The oil level tube was in the way and had to be removed. -In order to reach the top bolts on the tranny, I had to remove all cross-member brackets all the way to the the last one in the back and lowered the engine as much as possible. These 2 bolts were extremely tight, it probably took me an hour just to get these. -There are a lot of plastic wire connectors to unplug. My car is a Central California car that has seen a lot of heat. Most of these connectors were a bit dry and some were really painful to unplug. At the end, I had to unplug some connectors at the transmission shifter area where there is another plate that needed to be removed to access these. -As mentionned, I did break one on the exhaust pipe/intake bolt. Just tap it out with a hammer. I highly doubt that someone can do this in 3 hours for the first time. I would at least count 6 hours. Thanks again for putting this DIY together - it has been very helpful. |
Yeah, the exhaust manifold-to-cat studs tend to break every time you remove them, so I would count on replacing all 3 sets of hardware on the exhaust as well as that donut gasket.
The rx8 is harder to r/r an engine on versus an rx7 or most other "normal" cars. The engine sits under the firewall/cowl. |
Thanks mate...
Great pics and Very Informative.. I have seen many Techs here Curse and Struggle sometimes mating the Input Shaft and Clutch Plate in old schoolers, RX-2,3,4,5,7...a little Luck helps. As you say because the RX-8's engine is further to the rear (firewall) it does not help. RR how many miles had this 8 done .. Thanks again for ALL your Threads...excellent advise. |
Originally Posted by rxat2012
(Post 3490017)
i used your method to get my engine out but i cant for the life of me get the transmission and engine to mate back up.... any help would be great
;) Don't ask why I ask. :crazy: |
Originally Posted by ASH8
(Post 3588142)
Thanks mate...
Great pics and Very Informative.. I have seen many Techs here Curse and Struggle sometimes mating the Input Shaft and Clutch Plate in old schoolers, RX-2,3,4,5,7...a little Luck helps. As you say because the RX-8's engine is further to the rear (firewall) it does not help. RR how many miles had this 8 done .. Thanks again for ALL your Threads...excellent advise. |
A couple of quick notes:
1) I remove the brake booster hose on the manifold end and leave it attached to the booster. It just swings up out of the way and is one less thing flopping around on the motor. 2) Remove the oil pressure sender before you disconnect the motor mounts. It is very easy to smash this when moving the motor around and is one less thing to worry about since you have to watch the OMP sensor like a hawk or it too will be smashed. 3) You do not have to remove the main pulley while the motor is in the car, it does not interfere with the crossmember. However, DO loosen the front lock bolt while the motor is in the car before you even start the removal. Just put an 18", 1/2"-drive breaker bar with a 19mm socket over the bolt and rest the handle on the floor, hanging at the 4 o'clock position. With the ESS disconnected, bump the starter motor (key the ignition like you are trying to start the car) a few times and it will spin right off. This is WAY easier than trying to remove it with the motor out of the car. |
Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
(Post 3588679)
A couple of quick notes:
1) I remove the brake booster hose on the manifold end and leave it attached to the booster. It just swings up out of the way and is one less thing flopping around on the motor. 2) Remove the oil pressure sender before you disconnect the motor mounts. It is very easy to smash this when moving the motor around and is one less thing to worry about since you have to watch the OMP sensor like a hawk or it too will be smashed. 3) You do not have to remove the main pulley while the motor is in the car, it does not interfere with the crossmember. However, DO loosen the front lock bolt while the motor is in the car before you even start the removal. Just put an 18", 1/2"-drive breaker bar with a 19mm socket over the bolt and rest the handle on the floor, hanging at the 4 o'clock position. With the ESS disconnected, bump the starter motor (key the ignition like you are trying to start the car) a few times and it will spin right off. This is WAY easier than trying to remove it with the motor out of the car. |
Originally Posted by RotaryResurrection
(Post 3589173)
I dont see why it would really matter...in theory you could disconnect it in one of 3 ways...at the booster, at the engine, or in the middle. As long as it gets done, who really cares.
Originally Posted by RotaryResurrection
(Post 3589173)
What do the oil pressure sending unit, the motor mounts, and the "omp sensor" have in common, or have to do with the price of rice in china on a rainy tuesday?
You mention looking out for the OMP yourself. What I am pointing out is that both of those sensors get smashed regularly by people taking their motors out this way. The position sensor on the OMP is particularly delicate and the OMP is really pricey.
Originally Posted by RotaryResurrection
(Post 3589173)
I don't see how it could not...unless you want to literally have 1/4" of clearance on the way up and out,
Maybe it's something with the way you remove the tranny? (I just back mine off the engine on a jack.)
Originally Posted by RotaryResurrection
(Post 3589173)
Seems like it could be dangerous to the car and any bystanders.
I've been doing it that way since 1984. Maybe I'm just lucky. Its way cheaper than an 1800 ft/lb impact gun. My 1000 ft/lb gun will not remove this bolt. When I have a motor that is already out of the car and this bolt is still tight, I lock the flywheel and use a contraption I made out of two 6 foot lengths of schedule-40 pipe. I did the math on that and it was nearly 1400 ft/lbs of static pressure to get the bolt to move on the last motor we did. |
real great guide, thanks for the starter.
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Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
(Post 3589210)
Just one less thing to remember to put back in the engine bay.
I'm not sure I get your comment. You mention looking out for the OMP yourself. What I am pointing out is that both of those sensors get smashed regularly by people taking their motors out this way. The position sensor on the OMP is particularly delicate and the OMP is really pricey. Dunno. Never done it before. I just leave it on and it comes right out. Never even gets close to the rail because the motor is pointing up at an angle by the time it is ready to come out. Maybe it's something with the way you remove the tranny? (I just back mine off the engine on a jack.) So you spend at lesat 30 extra minutes taking all that other BS off, rather than spending about 3 minutes to pull the little crank pulley? That seems to make about as much sense as a buy 1 for the price of 3 get 1 free sale. :scratchhe Well, that's why you do it on the floor in the position I specified. I've been doing it that way since 1984. Maybe I'm just lucky. Its way cheaper than an 1800 ft/lb impact gun. My 1000 ft/lb gun will not remove this bolt. When I have a motor that is already out of the car and this bolt is still tight, I lock the flywheel and use a contraption I made out of two 6 foot lengths of schedule-40 pipe. I did the math on that and it was nearly 1400 ft/lbs of static pressure to get the bolt to move on the last motor we did. But, whatever works for you I guess. It's just not something I'd be bragging out. Kinda like saying you screwed 100 chicks since 1984 without a rubber and havent died of aids yet. :nono: |
Originally Posted by RotaryResurrection
(Post 3601397)
Wait, wait...if you leave one end connected to the brake booster, and disconnect it from the engine, that took 5 seconds, and it remained in the engine bay...it will still be there later. If you leave one end connected to the intake manifold, and disconnect it from the booster, that also took 5 seconds, and it remained on the intake manifold...it will also go right back into the engine bay when you drop the engine in. I think you are making this harder than it has to be. IT really does not matter one bit.
Originally Posted by RotaryResurrection
(Post 3601397)
Well, to quote you, Ive done it several times now and never even come close to having an issue with the OMP or it's wiring contacting anything in the engine bay while pulling the engine .The crank pulley is 9 inches below the OMP, you claim that the crank pulley is in no danger of contacting anything on the way out, so how the heck would anybody damage an OMP?
It get very close to the rail on that side of the motor because of the lack of clearance around the ABS and A/C compressor. I wonder if that had anything to do with Mazda's decision to turn the ABS 90° after 2005?
Originally Posted by RotaryResurrection
(Post 3601397)
Wait, wait, wait, let me get this straight...you actually remove the shifter, driveshaft, powerplant frame, and all that other BS so that you can slide the trans back when your goal is to pull only the engine? :confused: Because that is the only way I can see getting the trans to "back off the engine on a jack"...it has less than an inch of "play" otherwise.
So you spend at lesat 30 extra minutes taking all that other BS off, rather than spending about 3 minutes to pull the little crank pulley? That seems to make about as much sense as a buy 1 for the price of 3 get 1 free sale. :scratchhe
Originally Posted by RotaryResurrection
(Post 3601397)
Bear in mind that the crank pulley retaining bolt on most engines does not have loctite nor as much torque on it as the rotary does, so they are usually nowhere near as hard to get out.
That said, the torque spec isn't the issue, its to "work-torque" that does it in. Piston motors are no different.
Originally Posted by RotaryResurrection
(Post 3601397)
I didnt think you had a rotary car before the rx8?
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Thought I'd bring this back up. I am currently doing rebuild and r/r on an rx8.
Here's a pic that proves the crank pullies WILL hit the crossbar in the engine bay if not removed prior to pulling the engine out. http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/bu...n/DSCF1493.jpg And here is another that shows the OMP mysteriously nowhere in the vicinity of touching anything that might damage it. This is the closest it comes to touching anything. http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/bu...n/DSCF1495.jpg And another that shows it is possible, feasible, and just as easy to pull the engine and trans together, as spending time under the car uselessly dropping the trans by itself. http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/bu...n/DSCF1496.jpg http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/bu...n/DSCF1497.jpg http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/bu...n/DSCF1498.jpg Class dismissed. |
Why is the transmission still attached?
Teacher is fired. |
Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
(Post 3640943)
Why is the transmission still attached?
Teacher is fired. |
I think, what it comes down to, is that some people just aren't all that sensitive to the condition/quality of the fit and finish of a vehicle and its components.
One man's "luxury" is another man's "car in the yard up on blocks". |
Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
(Post 3641051)
I think, what it comes down to, is that some people just aren't all that sensitive to the condition/quality of the fit and finish of a vehicle and its components.
One man's "luxury" is another man's "car in the yard up on blocks". http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/kl...wroflcrowd.gif |
That's a lot of smileys.
Dude, you do whatever you feel like doing. No one really cares what you or I do. The whole point is to maximize the effort and minimize the damage, which is precisely the opposite of what you are advocating. No one here cares if you or I have some sort of "magic touch" that makes any particular method practical or impractical. The idea is to give people the method that will most likely lead to a happy outcome. Bravo on smacking the pulley and not smacking the OMP. I smack neither, which is good for me. |
Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
(Post 3641426)
That's a lot of smileys.
Dude, you do whatever you feel like doing. No one really cares what you or I do. The whole point is to maximize the effort and minimize the damage, which is precisely the opposite of what you are advocating. No one here cares if you or I have some sort of "magic touch" that makes any particular method practical or impractical. The idea is to give people the method that will most likely lead to a happy outcome. Bravo on smacking the pulley and not smacking the OMP. I smack neither, which is good for me. |
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