Dyno Results Compilation
#551
Power!!
I am not going to disagree with you about that when FI is in play. When you start upgrading to FI, upgrading the coils is something that should be done no matter what car you have as stock ignitions on NA cars are not made to handle decent boost upgrades as with turbos and superchargers. I agree with you on that and a custom ignition should be thought of in advanced for those situations and my comment was not addressed to those situations. For a majority of those out there that are still NA, thinking that they are going to increase hp and for those companies that say this, it is bogus. The stock system, as long as they are firing the plugs throughout the rpm range are delivering the maximum amount of power possible. Depending on your driving habbits, they may last 20k or more. If people want to spend more money for a system that may last longer, go for it. That would be a good choice but, saying they are getting more hp is bull. The point.....stock coils are cheap and can be replaced easily every time they are starting to go for about $120 for the set. If you go out and buy the okada or bhr for several hundred, that sure can buy you many sets of stock coils that can get you around 100k miles before you see any benefit, cost wise. I totally agree with you on FI though as that is a whole different monster. ![Smilie](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
![Smilie](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Also if you want to get in and replace coils every 30K then yes it's cheaper to do that but much more of a hassle. I've tracked and autocrossed with my Mazmart coils and don't see any misfires. I also, for some reason, saw some of the highest gains from MazdaManiacs dyno session back in January.
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#552
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#554
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The stock coils even new have a tendency to misfire and not create efficient combustion at high RPMs. It's common to see a gain in hp by replacing them not because they are doing anything magical but because the upgraded coils are actually performing as Mazda intended at higher rpm. Typically we see the long term fuel trims move when the mazmart or BHR kits are installed as well as smoother high rpm operation.
Also if you want to get in and replace coils every 30K then yes it's cheaper to do that but much more of a hassle. I've tracked and autocrossed with my Mazmart coils and don't see any misfires. I also, for some reason, saw some of the highest gains from MazdaManiacs dyno session back in January.![Dunno](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/dunno.gif)
Also if you want to get in and replace coils every 30K then yes it's cheaper to do that but much more of a hassle. I've tracked and autocrossed with my Mazmart coils and don't see any misfires. I also, for some reason, saw some of the highest gains from MazdaManiacs dyno session back in January.
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#555
Power!!
Its not a hp gain. That is my point. Yes it is true what you said if your coils are not performing as they should. There is no gain only restore to what it should be if the coils are performing as they should be. That is my point. My car last dynoed at 194. If my coils are going and next time it hits say.... 185 and I replace my coils and it goes back to 194. There is no gain only restoration of what it was before they starting acting up. The misfires may be more than just the coils. Connections to the plugs and coils could be worn.
#556
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They were fine as of my last oil change. The last dyno I had was 194 at the wheels and no broken lines in the dyno. It was smoothe other than when the ports transitioned at 6250 and 7250 where the line dips slightly. they are firing as they should but, I am going to replace the coils soon as I do know they are getting old and I am going to replace the plugs and wires as well. They have done well for me. I dont drive my car as hard as some do. I understand it is a hassel to change them out as well but, cheaper to put stock coils in and save the money as well. It is really the owners call. My point is, changing the coils will not give you any hp gain. For those that autox and drive like they stole it all the time, an upgrade will last longer than stock but, it wont give you a single hp.
Last edited by cliffkemp; 08-08-2009 at 10:48 AM. Reason: spelling
#557
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there are people out there running stock coils with FI and having no problems. Same with NOS. As long as your connections to the coil itself and the plug are very snug, the coil will work just fine. From working with electrical equipment and making wire for a living, connections are critical. You will find that if the connection is not good, the coil may overheat trying to fire as it should. I work with machinery that if the connection is not as it should be, it will heat the brushes up to the point where they will catch on fire. Carbon brushes for annealers can withstand over 5000 degrees F and I have seen them melt the wire that supplies them. I cannot stress what a good connection vs a bad connection can do to a coil. I have seen transformers melt due to this.
Last edited by cliffkemp; 08-09-2009 at 05:27 AM. Reason: spelling
#558
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My car is NA with 54k miles and I do have a few upgrades but stock coils and they are doing fine. People can spend their money all they want but, stock coils are fine. If you are going through coils, either your plug wires are not making good contact or your gap on your plugs are larger than they should be and are putting a strain on your coils. I know, I know the plugs are gapped .048 from the maker but, they dont always get it right. Its a wide gap to begin with and, you may or may not know if your plug wire boots are seating well with the plug end or the coil end although it may have snapped on like it should. With electrical parts, problems are hard to find. The stock coils are better than people give credit. They do need to be replaced every so often though. Best thing to do is change all the, plugs, wires, and coils at the same time when the dyno says you are losing hp. ![Smilie](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
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#559
Boosted Kiwi
iTrader: (2)
I was one who jumped on the Mazsport coil bandwagon early on . I now very strongly suspect they are resposible for blowing my engine when I fitted the turbo . Since then I refitted some new stock coils and high quality autoexe leads and have been gradually increasing the boost thinking the coils are going to limit what I can do .
So far i'm good to about 320whp . Back in the day 330whp was thought to be the limit for stock coils so one might think i'm cutting it fine .
So far i'm good to about 320whp . Back in the day 330whp was thought to be the limit for stock coils so one might think i'm cutting it fine .
![Dunno](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/dunno.gif)
#561
Race Steward
iTrader: (1)
When we were on the engine dyno for that 360 "session"... when we lost power we restored it by banging a new set of plugs in. I won't say on here what plugs they were, as I can guarantee NONE of you would believe me. And the rest of you would think we were silly. Stock coils, stock leads.
Cheers,
Hymee.
Cheers,
Hymee.
#563
Race Steward
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Cheers,
Hymee.
#566
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#567
I have been reading this stuff for a while now. I still dont see why people seem to think that getting a coil system is going to give them more hp. It doesnt work that way. If your stock coils are firing as they should, you are not, repeat not, going to get any more hp by replacing them. All these aftermarket coils and all are just expensive ways to get money from you.
It is just a gimmick and always will be for those that dont know any better, just like the hp chip for the 8 that will give you 25 hp. The only gain is in the other people's wallets. Keep your car dynoed from time to time and replace the plugs, wires, and coils when performance starts dropping according to the dyno. It is good, cheap maintenance. ![Smilie](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
![Smilie](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
The cost of replacing your coils (approx $125 + shipping) as well as maintaining dynographs of your car would far and away exceed $500 if done every 30,000 miles. Why not simply replace a poor performing part once instead of doing it 4 or 5 times over the life of a vehicle?
The issues with the RX8 stock coils has been a very long and documented process and it has nothing to do with people not snapping in their plug terminal boots, poorly gapped plugs or not maintaining the car.
#568
Power!!
#569
Registered User
absolutely. there is nothing to be gained if the stock ignition is performing as it should. If you replace them, the only gain you may get with the more expensive upgrades is longevity, nothing more. Still, paying 100 or so dollars for a set of OEM coils and replacing them every 30k miles is still cheaper than buying an upgrade for 500 plus dollars. It is just a gimmick and always will be for those that dont know any better, just like the hp chip for the 8 that will give you 25 hp. The only gain is in the other people's wallets. Keep your car dynoed from time to time and replace the plugs, wires, and coils when performance starts dropping according to the dyno. It is good, cheap maintenance. ![Smilie](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
![Smilie](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
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#570
I haven't seen any specific information to date suggesting the NGK plugs for the RX8 are not up to snuff. NGK has, in my experience, had a good reputation as a parts manufacturer and they are the only company I am aware of that manufacturers the stock RX8 spark plugs.
With that in mind, the over two hundred BHR customers who have purchased and installed our ignition upgrade have never reported that the upgrade produced no noticable results whether they be mileage or overall changes in the way the car behaves in a positive manner.
We suggest that people look into changing their plugs as if their current plugs are fouled due to a failing/failed coil then the electrode might not be able to produce enough spark. Plug gap might be a problem with the stock coils but I've not seen any instances to date of plug gap, OEM or otherwise, being an issue with our kit.
With respect to cliffkemp, I'm curious to see what evidence he has that anyone is marketing these upgrades in an effort to simply make money with a gimmick that does nothing.
With that in mind, the over two hundred BHR customers who have purchased and installed our ignition upgrade have never reported that the upgrade produced no noticable results whether they be mileage or overall changes in the way the car behaves in a positive manner.
We suggest that people look into changing their plugs as if their current plugs are fouled due to a failing/failed coil then the electrode might not be able to produce enough spark. Plug gap might be a problem with the stock coils but I've not seen any instances to date of plug gap, OEM or otherwise, being an issue with our kit.
With respect to cliffkemp, I'm curious to see what evidence he has that anyone is marketing these upgrades in an effort to simply make money with a gimmick that does nothing.
#572
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The BHR team has over 250 customers that would strongly disagree with both statements.
The cost of replacing your coils (approx $125 + shipping) as well as maintaining dynographs of your car would far and away exceed $500 if done every 30,000 miles. Why not simply replace a poor performing part once instead of doing it 4 or 5 times over the life of a vehicle?
The issues with the RX8 stock coils has been a very long and documented process and it has nothing to do with people not snapping in their plug terminal boots, poorly gapped plugs or not maintaining the car.
The cost of replacing your coils (approx $125 + shipping) as well as maintaining dynographs of your car would far and away exceed $500 if done every 30,000 miles. Why not simply replace a poor performing part once instead of doing it 4 or 5 times over the life of a vehicle?
The issues with the RX8 stock coils has been a very long and documented process and it has nothing to do with people not snapping in their plug terminal boots, poorly gapped plugs or not maintaining the car.
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#573
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I haven't seen any specific information to date suggesting the NGK plugs for the RX8 are not up to snuff. NGK has, in my experience, had a good reputation as a parts manufacturer and they are the only company I am aware of that manufacturers the stock RX8 spark plugs.
With that in mind, the over two hundred BHR customers who have purchased and installed our ignition upgrade have never reported that the upgrade produced no noticable results whether they be mileage or overall changes in the way the car behaves in a positive manner.
We suggest that people look into changing their plugs as if their current plugs are fouled due to a failing/failed coil then the electrode might not be able to produce enough spark. Plug gap might be a problem with the stock coils but I've not seen any instances to date of plug gap, OEM or otherwise, being an issue with our kit.
With respect to cliffkemp, I'm curious to see what evidence he has that anyone is marketing these upgrades in an effort to simply make money with a gimmick that does nothing.
With that in mind, the over two hundred BHR customers who have purchased and installed our ignition upgrade have never reported that the upgrade produced no noticable results whether they be mileage or overall changes in the way the car behaves in a positive manner.
We suggest that people look into changing their plugs as if their current plugs are fouled due to a failing/failed coil then the electrode might not be able to produce enough spark. Plug gap might be a problem with the stock coils but I've not seen any instances to date of plug gap, OEM or otherwise, being an issue with our kit.
With respect to cliffkemp, I'm curious to see what evidence he has that anyone is marketing these upgrades in an effort to simply make money with a gimmick that does nothing.
#574
Boosted Kiwi
iTrader: (2)
It is not that it does nothing, it just doesnt produce more hp over stock if the stock coils are working. If they are not working, they should be replaced and keep all connections good. I have tried coils on my other car that claim more power and none work. More powerful coils will last longer under extreme conditions if there is a problem with the connections over the stock coil but, you will not get a single hp gain at all over the stock coils. It will only restore if they were not functioning as they should. Stock coil are adequate if put on correctly and the connections are good.