onlytrueromeo

Just contacted Pineapple and Daryl Drummond for rebuild prices. I know they will be more (Drummond significantly more!) than a stock reman, but for those of you who have paid the premium for top rebuilders, what can I expect as a difference for longevity in a street/occasional track environment? I know Drummond (and likely Pineapple as well) dyno more than stock and both will be balanced with tighter clearances. The RX8 is my second vehicle and I will be keeping her for the long haul. It will stay N/A for the near future (at least next couple years) but I may at some point in the future have aspirations for a moderate (325whp) turbo setup. That's uncertain as I don't have great fabrication skills, but am generally savvy with mechanicals. My goal is ~80k+ miles for engine life with about 10-12 years of adding those miles. No endurance racing, just SCCA autocross (max 4 times a year) and maybe 1 lapping track once every few years. Minimal racing experience and limited time. Will likely add an MX5 to be stable once I get a my second garage built so the car won't see crazy extensive track use. I know many stock engines last this long with similar uses (at least N/A) so long as proper maintenance is followed. I premix and will be using a SOHN adapter.

Knowing that I plan to keep the car for a long time (forever) and my uses above, what do you see as the value of paying for a quality rebuild vs. the "improved" remans? I value quality; but is it worth 2x (estimated waiting on pricing) the price of a reman? Not interesting in swapping another engine (i.e. REW etc) in. If I were, I would go down the rabbit hole of spending way too much money. If I ever have enough money/time to do that, I would likely be buying a higher performance car

Loki

iTrader: (1)

Where are you getting your prices? Rebuilt engines from a good source should be on par/cheaper than Mazda remans, unless you're getting a bunch of extra work done, or insist on rebuilding your engine rather than buying a ready rebuilt one and handing yours over as core.

onlytrueromeo

Waiting on pricing for both. The rebuild would include balancing and other recommended work (clearances, etc.). This is not comparing a "cheap" rebuild vs. reman. It's the value of a professional top-quality rebuild with potentially upgraded parts. I would purchase the engine first before I could ship a core back. With the reported mazda quality improved it's not as simple of a decision for me. From reading recent threads, most people seem to recommend a reman vs. a normal rebuild unless DIYing as the pricing is really not that far off. Keep in mind I have no idea what my internals look like (I'm the third owner) and I'm usually one to go all-in.

DocWalt

Can't speak for the quality of aftermarket rebuilds but my Mazda reman has ~120 PSI compression across the board after ~6k miles including a few hundred autocross runs and four track days in a year. I don't think expecting a solid 80k miles out of any Renesis is realistic, it will likely run but be pretty slow.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

in general they have improved dramatically over the previous USA build process from many years ago, but with the factory seal selection process there’s the potential for either hit or miss

in this case; you pay more, you get more … kind of surprised DD gave you a price. Are you a past customer of his? Thought he was limiting the customer base going forward, but it may have been my misunderstanding.
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onlytrueromeo

Thanks Team. Still waiting on a price from DD but he has been communicating and is recommending blueprinting a reman engine as part of the build. Definitely realize I am probably overthinking this but as you said you generally get what you pay for. In this case with my expectations is it worth the premium with the oem quality improvements? Still need to see total pricing to make that decision but I will say I'm unlikely to spend 10-12k on a DD rebuild vs 4k for reman. But I would consider somewhere shy of that if the engine will last longer and perform better with my use case. The hassle of repeat swapping and waiting etc. does not fit my lifestyle and engineering workload.

apex1

I think the roi goes down significantly past the cost of a Mazda reman. Does paying more net higher longevity or performance. Maybe? But not worth the premium for me.

My Mazda reman was bought in 2014 and has about 4K on it. Comp test showed most faces around 110psi, with one face at 105psi. Certainly not great but not bad.

Once you have established spec or better compression, it seems optimizing other factors has more impact on net power production relative to a few more points in compression.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

no, it’s more than that and it ties in with my other attempts to explain what makes a Renesis different that many people still aren’t grasping

but then it’s fair to say that it’s not for everyone or justified for most people who won’t get the most out of it any way

needless to say you can’t miss what you never had

my favorite demonstration vid for true Renesis potential, when you consider that it’s a zero overlap design that only utilizes Helmholtz intake frequency tuning without any potential for exhaust tuning capability or contribution then it really is pretty amazing what can be gotten out of it. It will never set the world on fire though, especially lugging 3000 lbs around


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onlytrueromeo

Only 4k miles in 7 years? Track only car?

onlytrueromeo

I love this line. I want the increased performance/reliability and ability to push the engine a little if I so choose. A reman may be cheaper but I value my time and don't necessariliy want to swap a motor more often to save some money. I also want to eek out more performance which may dissuade me from further major performance mods. If all I wanted was straight HP, I'd drop an REW in it. But I want to maintain all OEM functionality with no plans to strip it down to a racecar. For the next 2-3 years (minimum) it will remain N/A. I will be pulling her from the road this winter and doing a complete suspension rebuild and repaint, S2 tranny swap etc. Do it once, do it right.

That said, ~$3,400 for a reman is definitely tempting.

apex1

Previous owner barley drove it. He was having trouble getting in and out / pushing clutch etc. I have only put about 700 miles myself.

Good point about not missing something we never had in the first place. I only really know what my Renesis is as of now. I can see flashes of something special. I certainly appreciate an extremely competent chassis paired with an interesting and unique powerplant. Each person has to make their own decision on what type of return they are looking for on their own build.

However... beyond ensuring my Renesis is a representative example of what Mazda intended, I see more risk than reward from a substantial investment. I say a recent Mazda Reman is the sweet spot. Spend the difference ensuring all the supporting equipment is tip top. But that is just me and I admittedly have much less history with these engines than others.

peloponisios

Remans were more expensive a time back, weren't they? Why the drop now? Are the metals used sourced from cheaper locations?

onlytrueromeo

Regular online retailers can be had as low as $3,800 give or take.
https://www.tascaparts.com/oem-parts...e-n3h302200rv0

Buying through the mazmotorsports though is slightly cheaper.

DocWalt

If you buy through Mazda Motorsports you can't return the core, so you're left with an engine to do... whatever with. Gotta factor in ~$300 to ship the engine to you and similar to return it to whoever you buy from.

I ordered my Mazda reman from Tasca and it went well besides the typical nonsense with freight companies working on their schedule.

onlytrueromeo

Wait, are you telling me Mazda Motorsports charges a $1,000 core but does not allow you to return the existing? Or is there no core? If no core, that's even better.

Tasca has been good to me as well.

DocWalt

They charge the $1000 core but there's no way for them to receive returns so you can't get the core charge back. Thankfully they were kind enough to clarify this for me before I ordered from them. They will sell the brand new OEM engines but I don't think there's any point to doing that.

DocWalt

Bro, I said Mazda Motorsports does that... not Tasca.

Mazda Motorsports can sell NEW engines... or rebuilt engines but they can't give you the core charge back for the rebuilt engines.

Tasca can only sell rebuilt engines and they will give you the core charge back.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

yep, only bad thing about anything reman’d through Motorsports is you have to eat the core charge.

I heard or saw something that said they’ll only sell members a new engine for that very reason because no core charge req’d with new and you’re practically paying the same on a reman when eating that $1000 core charge

BigCajun

iTrader: (1)

Damn man, I read that and the connection got crossed.
Thanks for pointing out that obvious mistake.
Deleting.

DocWalt

All good, I understand it was confusing! Trust me, it was confusing when calling them too.