Frankenpump and Premix
#53
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This may sound naive, but are we really implying that:
1) adding premix to a gallon or so of gas at the bottom of the tank and then filling up 30 seconds later, is significantly worse than 2) adding premix to a half a tank and then filling up 30 seconds later?
My understanding was that premix oil mixes thoroughly with fuel. (Someone here, I think rotarygod, once posted about a jar of pre-mixed fuel, and it seemed stable) If this is the case, then I can't see why it would cause any pump filter problems. If it's NOT the case, then I can't see why it would matter much when you add the premix.
Does this logic sound reasonable to anyone else?
1) adding premix to a gallon or so of gas at the bottom of the tank and then filling up 30 seconds later, is significantly worse than 2) adding premix to a half a tank and then filling up 30 seconds later?
My understanding was that premix oil mixes thoroughly with fuel. (Someone here, I think rotarygod, once posted about a jar of pre-mixed fuel, and it seemed stable) If this is the case, then I can't see why it would cause any pump filter problems. If it's NOT the case, then I can't see why it would matter much when you add the premix.
Does this logic sound reasonable to anyone else?
Swoope, how many people have had similar problems that you are attributing to the manner that premix is added to the tank?
#54
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Static... while entirely possible to ignite fuel via static discharge, you've got better odds of being struck by lightening. even if you were trying. i used to have figures that demonstrated the measure of discharge required to ignite the "perfect condition" and its insanely unlikely. That said i still dont think its a good idea to go asking for it by climbing in and out of your car during fueling, which is the easiest way to build strong static charges
I am thinking like swoope has mentioned that a large factor is the specific premix used. I also think gas quality has more of an effect if you are premixing. My issue with the whole deal is i am unwilling to go to such inconvenient lengths to ensure proper lube. I'll be using the Sohn as soon as i go home and start boosting, but will not premix. In a perfect world, when the time comes for my current motor to go, i will replace it with the new one and put 2 stroke through those pumps(hopefully the A/C industry aka RS ave figured that out for me by then)
Last edited by paulmasoner; 01-26-2009 at 09:28 AM.
#55
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I love the franken pump!!
Pics dont lie.
Our pump is not a sucker--its a pusher. Any resistance to the limited suction ability is not good. The sock is a SMALL sized 30 mic sock. (just a school class demo--take it off wet it and try to suck air through it) we need a bigger 70 mic sock. premix DOES affect the gas and dont get me started on sediment, ethanol and water.
Currently i use atf and kerosene (smart ones will know what I mean!) as premix.
Over time not only the sock but the filter itself can become problematic. Mostly on the track, but for some also on the road resulting in AA being called.
The 09 fuel pump assembley NOW has a replaceable fuel filter, replaced fpr and venturi set up(resulting in a larger void space in the can and a resigned sock. They dont change things without a reason, it appears interchangable and i will know for sure 2/1/09.
Swoop--ingenious on the sock cut out and I will show you some more stuff this w/e.
Wouldnt you know that fuel pressure is not the problem--its fuel volumne. This makes it more difficult to pinpoint. But a jar and a jumper will suffice---do NOT try this at home if you dont know what you are doing!
olddragger
Pics dont lie.
Our pump is not a sucker--its a pusher. Any resistance to the limited suction ability is not good. The sock is a SMALL sized 30 mic sock. (just a school class demo--take it off wet it and try to suck air through it) we need a bigger 70 mic sock. premix DOES affect the gas and dont get me started on sediment, ethanol and water.
Currently i use atf and kerosene (smart ones will know what I mean!) as premix.
Over time not only the sock but the filter itself can become problematic. Mostly on the track, but for some also on the road resulting in AA being called.
The 09 fuel pump assembley NOW has a replaceable fuel filter, replaced fpr and venturi set up(resulting in a larger void space in the can and a resigned sock. They dont change things without a reason, it appears interchangable and i will know for sure 2/1/09.
Swoop--ingenious on the sock cut out and I will show you some more stuff this w/e.
Wouldnt you know that fuel pressure is not the problem--its fuel volumne. This makes it more difficult to pinpoint. But a jar and a jumper will suffice---do NOT try this at home if you dont know what you are doing!
olddragger
#56
I love the franken pump!!
Pics dont lie.
Currently i use atf and kerosene (smart ones will know what I mean!) as premix.
you still have to explain the transmission angle!
Wouldnt you know that fuel pressure is not the problem--its fuel volumne. This makes it more difficult to pinpoint. But a jar and a jumper will suffice---do NOT try this at home if you dont know what you are doing!ding ding ding. btw, i have a brand new pump in case this used one fails in may.
olddragger
Pics dont lie.
Currently i use atf and kerosene (smart ones will know what I mean!) as premix.
you still have to explain the transmission angle!
Wouldnt you know that fuel pressure is not the problem--its fuel volumne. This makes it more difficult to pinpoint. But a jar and a jumper will suffice---do NOT try this at home if you dont know what you are doing!ding ding ding. btw, i have a brand new pump in case this used one fails in may.
olddragger
#57
He's as bad as Can
Swoope,
If you bring your tool with you to Mazmart would it be easy to pull my pump and look at the sock? That would be a pump with 28,000 miles using idemitsu, at a ratio of under 4oz per tank.
If you bring your tool with you to Mazmart would it be easy to pull my pump and look at the sock? That would be a pump with 28,000 miles using idemitsu, at a ratio of under 4oz per tank.
#60
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I've noticed the MMO mixes far more rapidly and easily; just one shake seems to be enough or even just letting it sit a couple of minutes. Whereas, the other stuff usually settled to the bottom and took some vigorous shaking to distribute. MMO seems to do just fine as premix; the revs are a bit higher. Of course I have no idea what the true wear rate is on the weedwhacker engine. I will say that the Mobil stuff had the least smoke at startup of the WW of anything I've tried.
In terms of what's happening in the bottom of a car's tank, I'm just guessing but I can see how some portion the thicker stuff might settle, and then act as a binder to the inevitable bits of dirt, and you end up with big greasy globs instead of fine-grained contaminants. Those globs attract other globs, etc... Maybe also some reaction with any droplets of water that might be there?
#62
Registered
I love the franken pump!!
Pics dont lie.
Our pump is not a sucker--its a pusher. Any resistance to the limited suction ability is not good. The sock is a SMALL sized 30 mic sock. (just a school class demo--take it off wet it and try to suck air through it) we need a bigger 70 mic sock. premix DOES affect the gas and dont get me started on sediment, ethanol and water.
Currently i use atf and kerosene (smart ones will know what I mean!) as premix.
Over time not only the sock but the filter itself can become problematic. Mostly on the track, but for some also on the road resulting in AA being called.
The 09 fuel pump assembley NOW has a replaceable fuel filter, replaced fpr and venturi set up(resulting in a larger void space in the can and a resigned sock. They dont change things without a reason, it appears interchangable and i will know for sure 2/1/09.
Swoop--ingenious on the sock cut out and I will show you some more stuff this w/e.
Wouldnt you know that fuel pressure is not the problem--its fuel volumne. This makes it more difficult to pinpoint. But a jar and a jumper will suffice---do NOT try this at home if you dont know what you are doing!
olddragger
Pics dont lie.
Our pump is not a sucker--its a pusher. Any resistance to the limited suction ability is not good. The sock is a SMALL sized 30 mic sock. (just a school class demo--take it off wet it and try to suck air through it) we need a bigger 70 mic sock. premix DOES affect the gas and dont get me started on sediment, ethanol and water.
Currently i use atf and kerosene (smart ones will know what I mean!) as premix.
Over time not only the sock but the filter itself can become problematic. Mostly on the track, but for some also on the road resulting in AA being called.
The 09 fuel pump assembley NOW has a replaceable fuel filter, replaced fpr and venturi set up(resulting in a larger void space in the can and a resigned sock. They dont change things without a reason, it appears interchangable and i will know for sure 2/1/09.
Swoop--ingenious on the sock cut out and I will show you some more stuff this w/e.
Wouldnt you know that fuel pressure is not the problem--its fuel volumne. This makes it more difficult to pinpoint. But a jar and a jumper will suffice---do NOT try this at home if you dont know what you are doing!
olddragger
But, like I say, what the hell do I know? How many people are really believing that premix is causing this problem on their cars? Where exactly is the fuel pump located in the tank? Are people with this problem waiting until their tank is bone dry before adding premix to their crud-filled tanks? It doesn't seem to make sense to me yet.
#63
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i'm leaning towards thinking that while there may be other issues, that some forms of premix that dont blend and distribute as well may be in part sticking to any sediment in the tank and causing what would normally not get stuck in the sock to stick.
imagine a fine screen in front of a water hose, the water carries some small debris, tiny little fragments of pebbles. the pebble fragments dont make it through and do not collect in the screen either. now turn that into muddy water and all of a sudden the fragments can start to stick and build up in the screen.....
swoope, thoughts?
anyone have access to the SAE Fluidity/Miscibility charts/catergorization? SAE-J1536
imagine a fine screen in front of a water hose, the water carries some small debris, tiny little fragments of pebbles. the pebble fragments dont make it through and do not collect in the screen either. now turn that into muddy water and all of a sudden the fragments can start to stick and build up in the screen.....
swoope, thoughts?
anyone have access to the SAE Fluidity/Miscibility charts/catergorization? SAE-J1536
Last edited by paulmasoner; 01-26-2009 at 06:43 PM.
#65
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awaiting PM thanks brettus
#66
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#67
I don't buy Kool-Aid
Please pm me pix when you do. Never know Hell might freez over and I might miss the thread lol
#68
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very interesting swoope!
I am curious to see expo's pump
I am curious to see expo's pump
#71
i'm leaning towards thinking that while there may be other issues, that some forms of premix that dont blend and distribute as well may be in part sticking to any sediment in the tank and causing what would normally not get stuck in the sock to stick.
imagine a fine screen in front of a water hose, the water carries some small debris, tiny little fragments of pebbles. the pebble fragments dont make it through and do not collect in the screen either. now turn that into muddy water and all of a sudden the fragments can start to stick and build up in the screen.....
swoope, thoughts?
anyone have access to the SAE Fluidity/Miscibility charts/catergorization? SAE-J1536
imagine a fine screen in front of a water hose, the water carries some small debris, tiny little fragments of pebbles. the pebble fragments dont make it through and do not collect in the screen either. now turn that into muddy water and all of a sudden the fragments can start to stick and build up in the screen.....
swoope, thoughts?
anyone have access to the SAE Fluidity/Miscibility charts/catergorization? SAE-J1536
but to look at the last sock, up close in person. it looks more like oil. clumps,, the smart people will get to see it this weekend.
beers
#73
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So, given these pictures, do we know what premix was used?
Not being an engineer, are there tests or standards for how well various 2 stroke oils or other premix blend with gasoline?
Do we know how adhesive the gasoline/premix blend is and what viscosity fluids can flow through the fuel pump's filter sock without damaging the pump?
Not being an engineer, are there tests or standards for how well various 2 stroke oils or other premix blend with gasoline?
Do we know how adhesive the gasoline/premix blend is and what viscosity fluids can flow through the fuel pump's filter sock without damaging the pump?
Last edited by longpath; 01-27-2009 at 09:27 PM.